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Kathy Love vs. general consensus

F

fxdwg

I got a snake mang!
I recently purchased the family's first corn (0.1 amel motley/het snow). I also recently introduced myself in the new members section and posted a picture if anyone is interested. Here's the stats on the snake:

7/19/06 hatched
7/29/06 shed
7/30/06 ate pinky
8/3/06 ate pinky
8/6/06 acquired

This evening will be three days and the temptation has been great to get her out and try to feed her. She hides all day and starts to roam around at about 8pm and continues to roam until we go to bed. At 6am she's back in the hide.

I was planning to wait for Thurs. or Fri. (4 or 5 days) which seems to be the general consensus. After that, feed every five days and start handling, but don't handle within 48-72 hrs of feeding. That was my plan.

However, I recently read a caresheet from Kathy Love and it basically says leave it alone for three days (that would be this evening). then feed it once a week, a small meal, for three weeks and don't bother it otherwise. I assumed small meal meant pinky until reading further. After three weeks you start handling and feed "normal-sized meals" and move the meals up to 3-5 days.

I'm looking on some feedback as to who subscribes to each method. I'm not looking for the quickest way to get my hands on the snake, although it's tempting. I am interested in what's best for the snake and it's long-term success. Thanks.

Mike
 
Maybe Kathy herself will stop by to give you her rationale... :grin01:

Sorry can't help- I am new to this myself!
 
One pinky should be fine. You can't really get smaller than that, so a "normal" meal will have to suffice.

My two hatchlings ate just fine after being shipping to Illinois from Texas.
 
My reasoning for not handling right away is that handling, especially in young ones, creates stress. It takes a snake a while to "tolerate" us and stress can cause the animal to a)not feed b) regurge. When I got my Ball pythons, i started handling too much and had one go off feed. The remedy was that I put him on a higher shelf, smaller hide and didnt handle for a couple weeks...wala...he ate next time offered. I am not speaking for Kathy, as I am no "expert", but speaking from my experience.

John
 
Wow, you got a 3 week old baby? I'm not sure, but I think most people don't usually sell them that young, but I'm sure some do (obviously!). That's a really ittty bitty baby snake you have there and I'd recommend you err on the side of caution and go with the more conservative handling schedule.

I'm pretty sure Kathy doesn't usually send hers out that young, so for her a small meal would be like a day old pinky and normal meals would be older pinkys. I think you should definately get the smallest pinks you can find for her first few meals. As a general guide a snake can eat a mouse that is 1.5 X as big around as the widest part of the snake, but again, to start with I'd err on the side of caution. The main reason to wait a week between the first few feedings is that you want to make sure the little snake is hungry when you offer her food, because if she's not and she refuses it can set up a behavior pattern where she just won't eat. It's a lot better to go easy in the beginning and have everything work out right than to have to try to backpedal to correct problems later on. And as far as handling goes, once she's had 2 successful feedings you could probably handle her a little (after she digests) but to start with you should keep handling sessions very short, just a few minutes.

But that said, a lot of it is chance. I've lost 2 babies when I did everything "right" and I've had others survive when I had not the first clue what I was doing and fed them and handled them pretty early on. :shrugs: Of course, I've never got one that young.

Good luck, let us know how things go!
 
hmmm....

Kathy is the Queen of Cornsnakes. Nuff said!

I always try to preach to new buyers to just leave them alone for a while. Let the babies settle in, and get well established, as in feeding and used to new surroundings. Yes, there are babies that do fine with being handled from the start, but there are others that will stress out and never eat if they are handled. Best to be on the side of caution. Especially with one so young.
 
Russell said:
Let the babies settle in, and get well established, as in feeding and used to new surroundings.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. That was my plan. Where I'm getting confused is that if I follow Kathy's advice, then I will be feeding it sooner than everyone else recommends. I'm not looking to handle too much. I was planning on not handling for a month (other than feeding) but I was planning to feed it after five days and every five days thereafter until it's on fuzzies (then move to six days).

I was just trying to figure out if I should feed it in three days and then once a week or wait five days and then start a five day schedule.
 
It wont hurt the snake to wait a few days longer before feeding; not knowing the snake I'd say give it the extra time to settle in before feeding. I usually never go by the last day they are fed before feeding them again with a new snake, they get put onto my scheduale right away, waiting at least 4 days before offering.
 
When I get in a new one, I usually just leave them be after looking them over and getting a quick ID pic. A 3 day wait before feeding is a good idea. The reason to start on the smallish end of meal size is to give them an easy time digesting and avoid the risk of regurging a normal meal simply due to stress of adjusting to new surroundings. Some snakes would do fine no matter what, others that are more nervous/skittish need the coddling. Safe-side thinking is leave them alone for the most part for the first couple weeks to let them get comfortable in their new home. Don't handle for a couple days after feeding and hedge to the smaller side of meal size for a couple feedings before bumping them up. Keep handling sessions short and relaxed at first.
 
I know I am in the minority here

But I think snakes are extremely adaptable animals even when young. New snakes should deffinitely be given some settle in time but I also think way too much gets made of this.

I generaly give my animals say a day to settle in and then feed UNLESS the breeder tells me that they ate recently.

On handeling soon as that lump dies down (usually a full day) I have no problem handling them. None of my snakes (corns, other rats, taiwans, house snakes, etc) ever regurge not even once and they all seem to thrive.

Once my animals hit that growth time at about 6 months -18 months when they do their most rapid growing I feed them heavily. Instead of two prey items at a shot I do a prey item on Wednesday and one on Saturday which is better then two one one day a week.

Now let us do a bit of math here shall we?

Most say don't handle for 48 to 72 hours! Um 72 hours is how long? 3 days! :sidestep:

So with my growth feeding schedule (which I have tested and know provides an exceptional growth curve vs. feeding once a week) it would be Feed Saturday ok now do not handle Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. Now I can handle on Wednesday but wait that is feeding day so no handling on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and now it is time to feed again. :shrugs:

So by the book my snakes should only be handled every Wednesday morning?

:idea: So how often do I handle them? About every other day so after a feed they get left alone for roughly 18 hours may be 24.

Like I have said no problems not ever as in never a problem. I did this because I believed that two feeds a week would grow my snakes faster and larger so breeding them at two years would produce nice size clutches and larger young and it has.

Now I know everyone is gonna tell me how wrong I am :rolleyes: go ahead but I and my snakes all seem to be pretty happy, :cheers:
 
I fed my two hatchlings the day they arrived (about 6 hours after delivery...when I got home from school) because they were due for a meal had they been at the breeder. This was before they were introduced into their tanks. They were fed in the deli cups they were delivered in and both ate like champs (and haven't missed a meal since).
 
I only had a 2 hour journey to bring my newest home, and today her due feeding day, so I offered, she ate straight away, and now she can settle in with a small pink to digest. I don't handle the hatchlings except to transfer into and out of feeding container, and it seems to work. Probably helps that I've got the bigger snakes to handle so I can resist the babies until they're older
 
There is no really good answer to your question...

because each snake is an individual and each set of conditions is different, so each situation may produce different results. Many snakes will do fine if you feed them as they come out of the shipping box and then handle them directly afterwards. But some won't! The problem is that you won't know which babies are susceptible to stress until one doesn't eat or starts regurging and you have to deal with that problem.

I try to make my advice conservative to avoid problems with those babies that might be prone to stress. I also suggest that keepers cut into the skin of the pink to make it easier to digest, especially at first, or whenever the snake is under stress (assuming the pinks are dead - don't cut live ones!) It would be great to wait 4 or 5 days for feeding, but my customers would think I am crazy to suggest that, and most probably can't wait that long. 3 days is reasonable and will work for MOST babies. One day would work for MOST babies. There is really no one magic formula or number of days that will work for ALL of them. Best to err on the side of safety until you know your particular snake and what works for it.

Actually, pretty much what Hurley said, but I am more long winded, lol!
 
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