Lavender X Snow = These....what are they?

[El Jefe]

Hey everyone!
I haven't produced quite as many lavenders as I would have liked to do in the past few years. I've been concentrating a little more on other morphs (lavas, reduced pattern etc.). However, this year I bred my 'patternless' snow to my lavender female and I got these interesting corns. I thought my snow was just that, a snow and not het. I also bought my lavender (serpenco stock) as a proven female that was merely a lavender and not a Het for anything else. Well, this year my eggs started hatching and I thought I was going to get all normals het lavender and snow and opal. Well, they finally all hatched and to me it does NOT look like I got what I was supposed to. Obviously the parents were HETS for stuff...but what? Are these lavenders and snows? I have yellower ones...are they opals? I'm sort of confused. I've never produced an opal so I don't know what they look like as hatchlings. Also, there didn't seem to be any normals OR albinos in the clutch so the whole Het thing for my parents has me confused.
I'm just looking for suggestions from those who may have produced lavenders or opals or whatever these are.
On a side note: my other snow X lavender (2 different animals) combination DID produce ALL normals like they were supposed to so that has me really thinking these are different.

 

[Clint Boyer]

Interesting dilema.

I haven't been getting a large amount of Lav, Opals or Lav Snows myself. I've seen a few odd things come from my Lav lines that look similar.

What we do know is that your Lav is het amel. The next step I'd take is to think about whether or not your Lav may also be homo anery. We could then make the assumption that they are anerys and snows. That would help with the fact that there are no other morphs in the group.

At this point, without knowing anything else, that's my best guess. A pic of the Lav parent would be interesting. I remember a bit about the patternless line but not how it was developed. I'm guessing that there's no Lavender in it's genetics.

The dark snakes look like I would think a homo Lav and anery would look. They may just be light anerys though. And the amels look more like snows then the Opals I've seen.

That's about the best I can come up with from the pics and data given.

 

[huneymonkey]

Post more pics after they shed and it will be an easier call to make.

 

[JCam99]

Those look a lot like the first clutch I had of opals and lavenders. Some of those pinkish hatchlings will turn out as opals, and others will turn out as snows. That is assuming the lavender was homo anery. You'll start to notice big differences after they have shed. I ended up with two types of opals. The first were the bright pink phase, and the second ended up peach phase. The peach phase came from a different female though. The snows I hatched out dulled in their pink coloration dramatically after the first shed and it was pretty simple to tell snows from opals. The opals either got pinker or started developing the peach tones.

Great snakes you got there
Jcam99

 

[ecreipeoj]

They look like what I would expect from an Opal X Lavender het Amel breeding. Your Snow must at least be het for Lavender and your Lavender at least het for Amel. It is also possible that your Snow is Homo Lavender and your Lavender is het Snow. This last combo would give you the same results that you got, assuming that a Snow Lavender would be hard to tell from a snow and a double homo for Anery A and Lavender looks very much like Lavenders.

The clutch looks like Opals and Lavenders, but could be Lavenders and Snows or Lavenders, Snows and Opals.

 

[ecreipeoj]

This is what I came up with on Mick's Corn Snake Prodeny Predictor that would have given you your results. The Snow Lavenders and Opals would look very simular as hatchlings and the Anery Lavenders and Lavenders would also look very simular as hatchlngs.

Male is, Snow, Lavender
Female is, Lavender, Het for Snow

Offspring are predicted to be...
25.00%, Snow, Lavender
25.00%, Anerythristic, Lavender, Het for Amel
25.00%, Opal, Het for Anery
25.00%, Lavender, Het for Snow

 

[Drizzt80]

Personally, if it were my situation, I would view the odds of the snow being het for lavendar as quite a bit lower than the odds for the lavendar female to be het for anery A and/or amel. Therefore, until proven via separate breeding trials down the road, I would personally assume that I have produced snows and anery A's, albeit they look (in the pictures) a tad bit different. And has been repeated again and again around here, variety is the spice of life when dealing within the different corn morphs!

I do know that I did the same cross this season, and got normals and anery's in the hatchlings. My female is also of SerpenCo stock, and it doesn't surprise me at all to find out that she is het anery A.

 

[Serpwidgets]

They look like lavenders to me. I wouldn't have a hard time believing the amels are opals. I'd think the first shed should clear things up.

My guess is that your snow is also homozygous lavender, and your lavender is het amel. Such a pair would produce lavenders and opals. (Also possible if the snow is het lavender.)

 

[snakepimp]

I know Rich Z tried to produce snow lavenders

From what I remember reading, Mr. Z said he hadn't had any luck producing snow-lavenders, or any lavenders at all from snows. Maybe they were just too dang hard to identify as 3x homo for anery/amel/lav.
I am looking to step, intentionally into this exact conundrum, but also adding hypo (a) into the mix....yikes.
I have groups of:

normals het for lavender/motley/anery 66% het amels.
1.2 amels het lav/mot/anery
Snow Het lav
Amel het lav/anery
Anery het amel/lav and anery het for hypo(a)/lav and 66% het for amel.

Sorting these out is going to be a long and expensive game.
I intend to keep all of the hatchlings until I am as certain as can be about their phenotypes.

:cheers: :cheers:

 

[ultimatecorns]

What would an animal go for IF it were a Snow Lavender? $300 bucks a piece at least right?

 

[CAV]

With any luck I'll let you know next year

The question is whether you can get someone to pony up for more than the price of an Opal, which is how most buyers will see them, IMO.

 

[tat2d1]

wouldn't a Snow-Lavender be the same thing as a "Pearl" corn?

from what i understand a snow is hom. for amel and anery A.
a pearl is hom for amel,anery A, and Lavender. so wouldn't a snow-lavender be the same thing as a pearl corn??
someone needs to throw the motley gene into the mix to eliminate the checkered belly, then you really would have an all white snake.
IF a snow-lavender and a pearl corn are the same thing, then i doubt you'd get $300 each for them(except from someone who doesn't know any better). I have seen pearls for $85-$100.

someone please correct me if i'm wrong, cuz i'm still trying to figure out all the genetics stuff.

 

[ultimatecorns]

No Pearl Corn was coined by Tim Rainwater awhile back. A Pearl is an Opal. BTW, a Snow Lavender would be worth alot regardless b/c it is triple homzygous.

 

[Rich Z]

At one time I also thought the "Pearl Corns" were triple homozygous animals (Lavender, Amelanism, and Anerthrism), which is why I embarked on that project to combine Snows and Lavenders (Opals) together. After MANY clutches from parents that were Snows het for Lavender and viewing the babies, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't come to any conclusion......

ALL of the babies just looked like run of the mill Snows to me. Maybe when they reach maturity, some will look different, but I decided I didn't want to carry that project that far. So I terminated the project and sold off most of the participants.

However, my belief now is that the "Pearl Corn" is just the form of Opal Corn that tends towards greatly resembling a Blizzard corn. Since I do get some Lavenders that are more gray looking than others that are more colorful (the original "Mocha" look), I believe that these grayer Lavenders combining with Amelanism (Opals), are actually what were called "Pearls". Based on the fact that Rainwater promoted the belief that the grayer looking variety of the Lavenders was a completely different genetic trait, I think this supports my current theory. Any Opals coming from that line would likely look like those patternless white ones I get here and there. At one time I bred Lavenders into Miami Phase stock, which is where I believe this line originated from. The normals that came from my original Mocha line were much more orange in color. Matter of fact, I recall a guy by the name of Bob Finley up in PA who had a snake he thought was a Blizzard corn until he bred it with a REAL Blizzard. He got all Amelanistics. Come to find out that his "Blizzard" came out of Lavender stock. So I think what I believe is accurate.....

But of course, my opinion is subject to change without notice pending conflicting data that could be forthcoming at any time.

 

[tat2d1]

http://www.pythons.com/hamper/avail.html

if you scroll down, under available corns it lists pearl. i suppose they could just be blizzards being marketed as pearls.

anyhow, when is someone going to throw the motley gene into the mix to eliminate the checkered belly (on blizzards or opals,pearls whatever you wanna call em), creating a real ALL WHITE corn? has anyone done so yet?

 

[CAV]

Pearl is another name for Opals regardless of what that site says.

Blizzards are for the most patternless snakes. It is already difficult to tell if they have belly checks.

 

[tat2d1]

Blizzards are for the most patternless snakes. It is already difficult to tell if they have belly checks.

the few i've seen had what i would call "butter colored" belly checks on them.
i want a completely all white corn(belly and all). so, if someone knows where i can find one, please let me know. thanks

 

[CAV]

Are you sure they went Snows instead of Blizzards?

Yellow is quite common on Snows, including belly checks. My adult Blizzards are colorless except for the white or pinkish base coloration.

 

[Clint Boyer]

I've seen a good amount of yellow on many Blizzards. They have varying amounts, some more then others. Even the cleanest ones I've seen have a slight amount more visible in direct sunlight.
It sounds like you've got a good line going Cav!

 

[tat2d1]

yeah, i'm sure they weren't snows. the few i've seen in person (which is like 3) were basically patternless EXCEPT for the belly. they had belly checks that were a butterlike yellow color. i want one that is patternless and has absolutely no belly checks, a plain white belly.
i know that alot of blizzards end up getting tints of yellow as they age, so i expect that to happen.