• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

March 23, 2012 is the final day of our rights

strikerratt

strikerratt

New member
Publication Date:
Monday, January 23, 2012
Agencies:
Department of the Interior
Fish and Wildlife Service
Action:
Final Rule.
Dates:
This rule becomes effective on March 23, 2012.
Effective Date:
03/23/2012
Entry Type:
Rule
Page:
3330-3366 (37 pages)
Document Citation:
77 FR 3330
CFR:
50 CFR 16
Agency/Docket Numbers:
FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015
FXFR13360900000N5-123-FF09F14000
RIN:
1018-AV68
Document Number:
2012-1155
Shorter URL:
https://federalregister.gov/a/2012-1155
 
March 23, 2012 :( will be the last day you can legally cross state lines with burmese python yellow anaconda and the northern and southern African pythons
 
I guess I just don't understand how a "free country" like the USA is supposed to be can have their rights taken away helter-skelter merely by some two bit government agency merely SAYING it will be so by publishing their opinion to make it so.

Why can't I simply publish somewhere that I will not pay taxes any longer and have it equally binding as law?
 
Sadly, it is not going to stop there. I can see them come after other herps too. Dart frogs, monitors, etc. All based on fear mongering.
 
"Sadly, it is not going to stop there. I can see them come after other herps too. Dart frogs, monitors, etc. All based on fear mongering."

I WISH it was ONLY herps! Unfortunately, herps are just a minor part of the undermining of all kinds of former freedoms, not to mention privacy. And so few seem to notice or care. And BOTH major parities have done their part to make it so. It is all so sad...especially for the youngsters who will never even know what they missed!
 
I do have to say one thing that is not in favour of this happening, it's just a personal observation about the herp industry. I do think we have hurt ourselves by not keeping tighter control on what are dangerous species (to people) and who we have been selling them to. I wish, wish, wish that we as breeders and enthusiasts had been less about making money and our enjoyment of the hobby and had had more focus on the outcome and consequences of producing large numbers of these and other giant snakes. Perhaps we could have avoided some of this backlash and fear mongering by taking more responsiblity about who we sold to, making sure that there are more educated people owning them and by not allowing just anyone with $200 to buy an albino burm with no thought for what was going to happen when it was 6' in a year and was the buyer even prepared for that. I do think as herpers we needed to, and continue to need to, police ourselves much better.

That said, this bill is wrong. It is stripping us of our rights and is a slippery slope towards other animal owning rights, and other rights in general, being taken away from us. Sadly, fear will always win out. It is human nature to be afraid. The more the politicians and "animal rights" people can scare the public into thinking any animal is dangerous the more our rights to own them will diminish. I do blame the herp community in part for allowing this to happen by our blase attitude in breeding and selling, but ultimately it is our government that is being heavy handed to try to control it.
 
As long as we keep voting people into office that have this frame of mind to constantly attack and reduce OUR freedom, how will it ever get any better? As long as those offices are always filled with people more interested in their own welfare and maintaining the status quo, we can expect that we will NEVER have any more freedoms than we have right now. And tomorrow will likely have less.

With a presidential election coming up this year, please take time to thoroughly study who is running for that office and vote accordingly. I think I've made it known who I intend to vote for.
 
"...I do think we have hurt ourselves by not keeping tighter control on what are dangerous species (to people) and who we have been selling them to. I wish, wish, wish that we as breeders and enthusiasts had been less about making money and our enjoyment of the hobby and had had more focus on the outcome and consequences of producing large numbers of these and other giant snakes. Perhaps we could have avoided some of this backlash and fear mongering by taking more responsibility about who we sold to..."

I am afraid I can only PARTIALLY agree with this. That is because I believe that any human endeavor that includes more than just a few people will ALWAYS include some irresponsible people. I don't care if it is driving cars, using guns or alcohol, raising children, or anything else you can think of. Get a few thousand or more people doing it, and some will do it poorly and irresponsibly. So we could use that human trait as an argument to shut down ANY activity that "somebody" with enough power and money doesn't like.

The other reason is because the humaniac animal rights organizations DO have enough money (which equals power) to buy politicians. And herps ARE inherently "scary" to enough people that any germ of truth can be twisted to suit the animal rights agenda. Although the pythons in the Glades and every sensational news story certainly help their case against us, I have NO illusions that, absent any "germ of truth" to inflate, they would invent SOMETHING. It just would take a little longer. And I would not be surprised if some enterprising animal rights person (or people) had a hand in one or more releases of pythons, just to "help" the media along. I have no idea if this has happened - but I am sure the passionate among them would feel that the end justifies the means of accomplishing their agenda.

So while I do agree that irresponsible keepers can hasten our demise, I can't agree that, had we been able to somehow magically turn EVERY keeper / breeder into a responsible person (even though that isn't how any other large group of people have worked out), that the humaniacs and the general public would have become our friends.

That doesn't mean I condone idiots with giant snakes or venomous snakes; just that I accept the reality of human nature, and what it means in politics and society.
 
I think the biggest problem with our rights, is that it usually has to be an object in our own mirror (that's closer than it appears), before we see it coming. And by the time we see it, we're already getting passed by. I am in NO way saying that rights being stripped is a deserved consequence for being too focused on our own issues, but we really need to make a better effort in being clear that - No Pythons = No dogs = No guns = No anything. And we can fight tooth and nail for our own rights, but it's almost a futile cause, so long as our rights are seen as fragmented privileges that are only allowed for those who it concerns.

Bottom line... our fight for Pythons and guns should also be our fight for same-sex marriage, racial profiling, religious freedom, etc... and not singling out any one injustice or infringement of our ability to live as we believe. Because without fighting for other causes, it is no wonder that our numbers as "reptile keepers" aren't enough to let our voices be heard.

And while I completely agree that our rights are our rights, and NOTHING should conflict with them, regardless of other social issues. We do live in a world of billions of people, of which every single person is born with an individual identity, and the same right to live life free, and as they believe. And in order to co-exist, keep our rights, and truly live free to be ourselves, we have to be accepting of the bigger problem, which is that this is all relative, and it's a global lack of understanding and support for our fellow man, who may live lives completely opposite of our own. Because the only true answer is realizing that the value of "their" life and individuality is really "our" life and individuality. Freedom has no value without equality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top