Mat without regulation experiment...

[Tula_Montage]

I have noticed a few people asking about thermostats recently, And have seen people being advised to use them as their temperatures are not being regulated.

Heres hard evidence that a mat without a thermostat and no insulation WILL over heat and fry your corn.

I plugged a 12watt mat into the mains, put it underneath a 10G i don't use and measured the temps at regular intervals. The digital thermometer was placed at the centre of the mat underneath aspen substrate.

Heres the shortlisted results (similar to the experiment recently done with hot rocks)

10 mins: 78
20 mins: 84
30 mins: 93
40 mins: 97
50 mins: 102

and after only an hour the temps read 110 degrees!!

So please if you are not using a thermostat to regulate the temperature to between 80 - 86 on the warm side, i suggest investing in one...

A good thermostat will regulate a whole rack of tubs, not just one!! Common misconception is to buy a new thermostat every time you get a new tank and heat mat. This is NOT needed if the same temperature gradient is needed for both tanks. However pet stores will always tell you otherwsie

Just a heads up and I hope this helps some who have thermostat and heat regulation temps

 

[Tula_Montage]

Last word should be questions, not temps...

 

[Plissken]

I admit I have never had my tanks regulated, and it was all right before, but I just moved Connor in to a new tank and I have noticed his temperatures getting out of control. On my way to collect my new python tomorrow, I will also be buying a thermostat. Thank you for posting this!

 

[Shep151]

A good thermostat will regulate a whole rack of tubs, not just one!! ... This is NOT needed if the same temperature gradient is needed for both tanks.

:idea: I agree with this statement, with the following provisions:

• The viv's are of the same material
• The heat sources are identical, NOT similar

If those two criteria are not met, and a single-zone thermostat is used for multiple viv's, you won't be able to maintain the same temps in each viv. :wavey:

 

[pcar]

I am going to put some info on here about 2 different types of Thermostats. I have posted this before, but thought that I would share it again so people will see it again.

When you set up the Thermostat correctly, it will control the amount of current that is flowing to the heatmat, thus keeping the heatmat at a constant temperature.

however, you will find that there are different types of thermostats out there. You have the kind that turn something on and off, and you have the regulator type that just regulate the current.

For all of you that aren't electrically savvy, current is the flow of electrons from a negative terminal to a positive terminal. Voltage, when applied to a resistance source, is what creates the current. When you change the resistance that the voltage is going through, you will increase or decrease the amount of current going to the powered object in question. example: The type of thermostat that regulates current is made up of a rehostat (variable resistor (dimmer switch)) that is controlled by a microcomputer. The Microcomputer then has a measuring protocal that will take the temp of a certain area (where the probe is) and compare it against the user settings (constant). If the measured < constant then the thermostat lowers the amount of resistance, thus increasing the amount of current. If measured > constant, the thermostat increases the amount of resistance to lower the current. If measurement = constant then everything is gravy and the thermostat doesn't make any changes.

The above statement is proved by using Ohm's Law (V=IR --> where V=Voltage, I=Current, and R=Resistance). When you are looking for the amount of current, you change the equation to be I=V/R. Thus, I and R are inversely proportional. So, if you increase R, you decrease I, and if you Decrease R, you increase I.

And, to get a little more info on the other type of thermostat. All this type does is act like a wall switch. When the measured temperature is eaqual to or greater than the user given temp, the switch will throw and open the circuit...thus stopping all current flow to the given object (just like when you turn off the wall switch, the lights go off). When the Temp is lower than the user given data, the switch turns on and allows full current to flow to the object. This type of thermostat has a lot of problems with keeping constant temps because when you turn off the heatmat, it will take a little while for it to heat up significantly when it is turned back on.

What I call a regulated therm is also called a proportional Therm.

 

[Drizzt80]

Heres the shortlisted results (similar to the experiment recently done with hot rocks)
10 mins: 78
20 mins: 84
30 mins: 93
40 mins: 97
50 mins: 102
and after only an hour the temps read 110 degrees!!

10 Min's.-93-97
30 Min's.-95-101
60 Min's.-104-109
90Min's.-110-115
120Min's.- 110-115
180Min's-110-118

Thanks for the data elle. So, all things the same can someone tell me again why hot rocks are so bad and UTH's are so good?!

D80

 

[pcar]

because the hot rock is in the viv with the snake and the mat is not.....(with my best sarcastic tone)

They are both the same, and with proper regulation, can be used effectively and safetly.

 

[Drizzt80]

because the hot rock is in the viv with the snake and the mat is not.....(with my best sarcastic tone)

Can I get a hair flip and an eye roll with that!? It'll get me warmed up to deal with my 8th graders again next week!

They are both the same, and with proper regulation, can be used effectively and safetly.

Exactly!! This has been my contention, BUT hot rocks get met with such negative venom towards their use that I just don't understand it. :shrugs:

Noone has shown why the rock itself is bad . . . for example I would ask how many UTH's are used with thermostats compared to hot rocks. I'd bet very few hot rocks are used with a thermostat, while a greater majority of UTH's are. Is that the hot rock's fault, or human error?

D80

 

[Flagg]

Well, examining those numbers, the hot rock gets hotter a lot quicker so may be tougher to regulate. Perhaps this is due to the layer of glass between the UTH and the inside of the viv.

 

[Flagg]

It's disheartening to see posts from people who don't do any research on temp regulation or even measuring it at all until after their snakes are dead or dying. There's another one today.

 

[Shep151]

BUT hot rocks get met with such negative venom towards their use that I just don't understand it. :shrugs:

Noone has shown why the rock itself is bad . . . for example I would ask how many UTH's are used with thermostats compared to hot rocks. I'd bet very few hot rocks are used with a thermostat, while a greater majority of UTH's are. Is that the hot rock's fault, or human error?

I don't have a reference to cite, but it was my understanding that the "early generation" hot rocks used a cheap resistance-coil heating element that created extreme variances in temperatures across the surface of the rocks. This made it so that you could touch an area of the rock and think it was ok, but in another area it would be screaming hot, and likely to injure the reptile.

I'm not sure the bad rep is still deserved. It's probably just everyone screaming the same rhetoric they were taught when the entered the industry, but I'm not interested in testing the theory, lol!

 

[pcar]

Can I get a hair flip and an eye roll with that!? It'll get me warmed up to deal with my 8th graders again next week!
Exactly!! This has been my contention, BUT hot rocks get met with such negative venom towards their use that I just don't understand it. :shrugs:

Noone has shown why the rock itself is bad . . . for example I would ask how many UTH's are used with thermostats compared to hot rocks. I'd bet very few hot rocks are used with a thermostat, while a greater majority of UTH's are. Is that the hot rock's fault, or human error?

D80

There's your eye rolling, but I don't see anything with a hair flip.

The only thing I say about hot rocks is that they are a localized heat source and don't tend to spread the heat around the viv. The heat mats tend to spread the heat around better. (This is what I found when I first started out.) oke:

 

[Plissken]

Actually heat mats do go inside wooden tanks.

 

[pcar]

Actually heat mats do go inside wooden tanks.

You are corect there. In this case a mat and a rock are still both the same. and I reiterate again, as long as they are regulated properly, they will function the way you want them to.

 

[Tula_Montage]

It came to my attention recently that no matter how many bits of newspaper or magazines you use to insulate your unregulated heat mat - temperatures can still be deathly high!

When transporting Hogweina from my grans to my house I had to have her on an unregulated mat overnight. To ensure the temperatures did get too high I used AT LEAST an inch of magazines to drop the temperatures.

I had the 12 watt matt pluged straight into the mains, and the temperatures monitored with a digital thermometer with probe INSIDE her tub underneath the substrate on the warm end.

Over the course of an hour I watched the temperatures soar to over 90 degrees. Remember there was over an inch of paper and magazines between the base of the tub and the heat matt. The highest temperature recorded overnight was 99.4 degrees. Im sure it would have gotten higher is I had not kept putting more paper in the pile

It just goes to show that regulating your temperatures is VITALLY important when it comes to keeping snakes.

Another lesson learned

 

[Kitty]

With all the discussion about regulation, I'm assuming we're talking about ZooMed or heat tapes or some such.

Has anyone had any experience with this heat mat? (By that, I mean, an experiment similar to Elle's with testing the temps over time without a regulation device.)

http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=2574893.15216*r34r_3&p_id=16018&xm=on

The one I have is on a thermostat because I'm too big a chicken to test it without one. But I would be curious about the results if anyone else has.

 

[lefty_mussolini]

With all the discussion about regulation, I'm assuming we're talking about ZooMed or heat tapes or some such.

Has anyone had any experience with this heat mat? (By that, I mean, an experiment similar to Elle's with testing the temps over time without a regulation device.)

http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=2574893.15216*r34r_3&p_id=16018&xm=on

The one I have is on a thermostat because I'm too big a chicken to test it without one. But I would be curious about the results if anyone else has.

We use and sell those heat pads at my work. We won't even sell the ZooMed or other sticky heat pads.
I have personally plugged in one of those heat pads from the above link and checked the temps of the surface of the pad with a heat gun. The temps (again, on the actual pad) never got over 100*.
I've also randomly checked some of the display vivs at work that we use these heat pads with. The temps were always good.
I've also never heard a complaint about these.

 

[Nanci]

Trevor, glad to hear you like the Ultratherm. That is what I am getting with my Jungle Plastics cages. How do you attach them, or do you? Alan at JP said I could use aluminum (?) tape. Or would you just mount it on a floor tile and set that under the cage? The cage is plastic- ok for heat mats.

Nanci

 

[bribrian]

Actually heat mats do go inside wooden tanks.

They do but they also should be placed under perspex etc & sealed to stop moisture entering the mat, so in theory they're outside the viv....

 

[tyflier]

They do but they also should be placed under perspex etc & sealed to stop moisture entering the mat, so in theory they're outside the viv....

No...they are still inside the viv. They're isolated in their own atmosphere, but they're still contained inside the viv...