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mice vs rat

U

ucaqt

New member
What are the advantages and disadvantages of feeding rats versus mice? I have heard rats make them grow faster. Is there any truth to this? Comparing the cost of purchasing frozen mice and rats it would run right about the same , but I would end up having to feed less animals if I fed rats. I would feed one weanling/small rat weighing 45gr versus 2 adult mice weighing 25gr each, once every two weeks. What are your thoughts?
Oh by the way my snakes are all 2-3 years old and 48-55" long, and 4 1/2"-5" in girth.
 
This is not what you were asking, but I think that a rat of that size is too big for a corn snake. If your snakes are 5 inches in girth, then they are probably obese, and are being overfed, unless you are breeding the females. So you might consider backing off to feeding one adult mouse, or a rat of comparable weight, to a feeding every 10-12 days. It would be healthier for the snakes in the long run.

Mark
 
In my experience, rats do allow for quicker growth within your snake.

In my experience and opinion, I would not feed rats to my adult males, but would use them with adult female breeders. I have a couple of adult male breeders, that even though they are on 1 adult mouse every two weeks, they look on the edge of overweight at times during the yearly season. My female breeders get an adult mouse every week in order to bulk up for the pressure of breeding and then the recovery after breeding. They seem of 'perfect' weight when not in the middle of breeding season or directly after egg laying.

D80
 
I just wanted to add something here...

If you were breeding your own feeders...Once the snakes reach sub-adult size...it's more economical to breed rats. You do not have to wait so long to raise them up to the appropriate size. A rat pup is relatively the same size as a small adult mouse.
 
just wanted to add my two bits as an ex-rat-breeder. I may get blazed for this but lets face it, mice are not the brightest crayons of the bunch...while rats can learn their own names, come when called, be taught tricks like sit/stay...fetch and playdead(on their back) so when choosing which would be better to feed your snake, id consider which would be more missed.

A mouse who just poops and pees but has no real value except as a feeder or cage ornament. or a rat who will become your best friend, learn your tricks, lick your tears and ride on your shoulder all day long while styling your hair with the little hands of an artist.

Not meaning this in a bad way as i feel no real pain at the thought of a feeder rat being used if prekilled, but if asked my opinion which would be better, for my reasons listed above i go with the mouse.

For an animal that is thought by many vetranarians to be as smart as a dog, why do we, the public, think so little of them as to use them as food for another creature when something alot less intelligent can be used.....food for thought, just the logical side of me coming out.
 
Willow771 said:
just wanted to add my two bits as an ex-rat-breeder. I may get blazed for this but lets face it, mice are not the brightest crayons of the bunch...while rats can learn their own names, come when called, be taught tricks like sit/stay...fetch and playdead(on their back) so when choosing which would be better to feed your snake, id consider which would be more missed.

A mouse who just poops and pees but has no real value except as a feeder or cage ornament. or a rat who will become your best friend, learn your tricks, lick your tears and ride on your shoulder all day long while styling your hair with the little hands of an artist.

Not meaning this in a bad way as i feel no real pain at the thought of a feeder rat being used if prekilled, but if asked my opinion which would be better, for my reasons listed above i go with the mouse.

For an animal that is thought by many vetranarians to be as smart as a dog, why do we, the public, think so little of them as to use them as food for another creature when something alot less intelligent can be used.....food for thought, just the logical side of me coming out.
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Uh, since when does "rodent smarts" come into play? Who honestly cares if a rat can do tricks or not? How does that make them a less desireable feeder for a snake?

That doesn't make any sense.
 
Joejr14 said:
Uh, since when does "rodent smarts" come into play?
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Uh, when someone like Willow is debating between feeding rats or mice to a snake.

Who honestly cares if a rat can do tricks or not?
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Uh, Willow does, evidently.

How does that make them a less desireable feeder for a snake?
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Uh, if one spent the time and effort training the animal to do certain "tricks" or behaviors, they'd probably place more value on that animal. For example, if (key word: IF) captive African Rock Pythons were fed dogs, I'd be more likely to feed it some dolt Irish Setter than my Lab.

That doesn't make any sense.
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Uh, perhaps not to you. That would be referred to as "your opinion".

Willow771 said:
Not meaning this in a bad way as i feel no real pain at the thought of a feeder rat being used if prekilled, but if asked my opinion which would be better, for my reasons listed above i go with the mouse.
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Uh, get it now?

regards,
jazz
 
Jazz - If the rats are being bred as a feeders...It's highly unlikely that an individual is going to take the time to teach them "tricks."

Willow, I completely understand where you're coming from. My rat breeders are all hand raised by me and have wonderful temperments and personalities. These breeders I am attached to, and will be humanely uthanizeing when they start to deteriate. BUT, their young...Which I do NOT get attached to...Are taken at a young age before their individual personalities take over...They are being bred as strictly feeders and at times to raise up to replace the retired. I do not see how this makes rats less desirable then mice as feeders...
 
Once my snakes are large enough to go to rat pinks, they stay on rats. I go through pets inc, and rats cost the same as their mouse counterparts. (pinks vs pinks etc etc)
They have better nutritional value I believe, and build muscle, not just fat reserves. I find that my breeding females recover quicker and have put out healthier clutches. The quality of the eggshells is better. This is just what I do, and it works best for my colony. Some people do not agree, so Ucaqt, its up to you to find out what works best for yours.
 
blckkat said:
Jazz - If the rats are being bred as a feeders...It's highly unlikely that an individual is going to take the time to teach them "tricks."
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Agreed - but I believe that Willow's point is that since rats have the capacity to learn behaviors, and if she values their "intelligence" to do so, she would prefer to feed mice - a point that Joe seemingly overlooked. My point was that of placing higher value on the animal, not whether one is teaching their snake food to "roll over", so to speak.

Willow, I completely understand where you're coming from. My rat breeders are all hand raised by me and have wonderful temperments and personalities. These breeders I am attached to, and will be humanely uthanizeing when they start to deteriate. BUT, their young...Which I do NOT get attached to...Are taken at a young age before their individual personalities take over...They are being bred as strictly feeders and at times to raise up to replace the retired. I do not see how this makes rats less desirable then mice as feeders...
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And nowhere in Willow's post does she mention "attachment". While it's probable that she does become attached to those that "become your best friend", I'll take her statement at face value - she finds mice more desirable as feeders, given the intelligence of rats.

But I won't presume to speak for her. :)

regards,
jazz
 
I find that teaching them "tricks" and general socialization will present anyone with a form of attachment to what they breed (whether for pet or feeder). I know my damn mother gets rather attached to my breeding colonies. She's taken 7 of the offspring I've produced now (all females)! She does understand though WHY I'm breeding them and completely accepts it.

Her (or anyones for that matter) personal choice of feeding mice over rats (or vice versa) is completely acceptable. BUT...no one should be told "it's not right" because of personal choice/opinions. Rats honestly are a better food item for reptiles. I too have had better growth rates with them.
 
I feed mine a mix of both, i.e. whatever i have on hand ;*)...the growth rates of my snake's on rats vs mice has been slightly faster; I wouldnt call it dramatic but it is noticable...I'm considering mixing in some button quail also, for a bit more variety...my female hypo i just received got them as a "snack" every so often...for those inclined and with a few clutches here's an "experimental" idea:

1) feed up your clutches til they are big enough to start on rat pinks
2) divide the whole group into three test groups
3) continue to feed one group all mice, another on rat pinks and continue on rats only, and the last a mix of mice, rats and even an alternative like quail, day old chicks or even small anoles or skinks (captive bred ones if possible to avoid parasites)...

after a year, and on the year, take weights and lengths...fun stuff :*)...
 
blckkat said:
Her (or anyones for that matter) personal choice of feeding mice over rats (or vice versa) is completely acceptable. BUT...no one should be told "it's not right" because of personal choice/opinions.
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Agreed - and my point exactly. Whether it's based on emotional attachment or nutritional content, it's their choice, and no one need be told what makes them "desirable" for a food source or not. One man's trash is another's treasure.

Rats honestly are a better food item for reptiles. I too have had better growth rates with them.
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Well, for snakes, at least. Rats can be too fatty for certain lizards and amphibians, imho.

regards,
jazz
 
*grins mischeviously*

Now didnt i stir up something quite delightful, i so love to see the true natures of my online companions before i start bonding. Good to see so many people who can appreaciate creatures for what their worth as well as how they taste :grin01:

I must say I'm really starting to enjoy hanging around here.

feel free to call me a brat if you like, i dont mind...he he, i know i am. Dont think ill ever grow up :dgrin:
 
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