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Motley,Candy cane are these......?

I

Isak

New member
Hi, I wonder if I want to produce a hypolavender corn, u have a hypo and a lavender to start out with. But if u also want to have the chance of getting an hypolavender motley and instead u have a hypomotley and a normal lavender to start out with,is the motley gene a own trait or is it a upcoming mutation, cause if u have 2 motleys and breed them u don't get all 100% motley's, if it were a color mutation u would get 100%. I mean that if the motley gene counts as a trait when breedig a hypomotley to a lavender, do u get the same chance of getting normal hypolavenders or does the motley gene destroy that theory so there is just 1 in 64 chance of getting a normal hypolavender instead of 1 in 16 when u breed a hypo to a lavender.
Why i'm asking is because im going to buy a hypo and a lavender and then try produce hypolavender/s in the f2 or f3 clutch, but i think it would be great to also have a chance of getting a hypolavendermotley. If I buy a hypomotley instead of a normal hypo, do I still have the same chance of 1 in 16 of getting a hypolav in the f2 clutch, and just 1 in 64 chance of getting a hypolavendermotley?
I also wonder does the candycane count as an amel or as an dubble ressesive trait (amel x miami)? If u breed a candy cane to a caramel and produce a f2..will u get normal butters or candycane butters?

I think serpwidgets can answer this one :D (again)
 
Well, but here are a few things for you to consider on all this:

First, breeding a motley to a motley DOES give you 100% motley offspring. There may be motley/stripes present, but that would simply mean that one (or both) of the parents is/are actually motley/stripe, but the pattern has been misleading. If any true striped babies hatch out, BOTH parents would have been motley/stripes.

Second, if you breed a hypo to a lav, then breed the F1s back to each other, you have a 1/16 chance of producing a hypo lav. If you use a hypo motley in the original cross, your chances are still 1/16 for a hypolav in the F2: the motley doesn't affect that. You also have a 1/16 chance of producing a motley lav out of that cross, as well as a 1/64 chance of getting a hypo motley lav. However, make certain that the animal you buy is a proven genetic hypo and motley animal, rather than just a motley with exceptionally reduced black outlines. Just because they're called hypos doesn't mean they really are, genetically speaking, when you're dealing with motlies.

Third, candycane, from a simple recessive genetic perspective, is simply an amel. The reason it is a candycane is because it has been line bred (using miami or not) to have a reduction of orange/red in the ground color, leaving the white background. Also, it is not possible for a snake to be "het miami," because it is also a "look" produced by linebreeding within the normal genetic realm. So, if you bred a candycane to a caramel, you would get butters in the F2 generation. Would they look different? Perhaps. The linebreeding behind the candycane lineage would likely have SOME effect, but I really doubt you would get the white background with yellow blotches. Probably more of a variation in shades than anything else.

Hope that helps . . . :cool:
 
Okay...

Hmm...the thing about breeding a motley with motley would produce 100% hatchlings i dont agree on....if u use the cornsnakeprogram that is what it says but all the hatcling may not have the motley look (they may have the motley genes, i don't know).....or more or much less mabey..i dont know exactly, do you?
So u mean a hypomotley is hard to tell if it's realy a hypo? I hope i get it right then...so if i get you right the third trait doesent affect the other two traits? In that case why not try to create tripple traits every time instead of using only two traits if the perscent of getting only the dubble trait is the same? In that case i'll get dubble traits to breed with simple traits :D

Thanks for you're reply!
 
Well, I am not certain what you mean about "the motley look," but if you breed two animals that are both homozygous for motley, 100% of the babies will be homozygous for motley as well. It is a simple recessive trait (at least as far as we now know), and that is how it has to work every time.

Also, having three traits in the mix does not affect the probabilities of any two traits coming together in one snake. Think about it this way:

I have two coins (coin A and coin B) that I am flipping. They will both come up "heads" approximately 25% of the time.

Now, if I add a third coin (coin C) and start flipping it, the chances that any two coins will come up "heads" is higher than the 25%, and the chances that ONLY coins A and B are going to show heads has gone down some, but the odds that coin A and coin B are both heads has not changed at all simply because there is another coin being flipped.

That probably makes no sense at all, but just because you add a third trait, it does not change the percentages of any two traits being put together in the one animal. Hope that helps some.

:eek:
 
Thanks!

Okay, so the third trait does not affect that two of them will get together...GOOD :D
I didn't thought that 2 motley would produce 100% motley hatchlings....i mean mabey they will be motleys but have more normal pattern?? I thoght that the pattern mutations is harder to get than the color mutations but I maybe wrong..I hope. I don't know but some people that are selling striped hatchling for example, just got 3 hatchlings out of 10 that were realy striped, the other maybe partitialy striped or not striped at all. I don't know if the parrents were both striped though, but i did asume that...am i wrong about that theory? It works that way with aztec corns what i know anyway, u may get full aztec corns and some of them maybe just a little or very little/none aztec patterned.
I think I'll try to get a hypomotley :D....maybe someother motley's or aztec's to, don't like stripe, they don't feel like corns.

Thanks!
 
Well, a striped/motley bred to another striped/motley will produce stripes, striped/motlies, and motlies. A motley bred to a stripe will produce all striped/motlies (although the babies can look like stripes, motlies, or anything in between). A motley x motley breeding will give you all motlies, and a stripe x stripe crossing will give you all stripes. Whew! :D

Aztec is another story, though. You can get an animal that has an "aztec-y" pattern to it from two normal looking parents. Likewise, aztec x aztec does not guarantee 100% aztec babies. It is not, it seems, a simple recessive trait at work.
 
Ahaaaaa!

So, now i get it...the aztec is another story..I thought so to when u told me about the motleys....U said motley x stripe will produce motleystripe, u mean in f2 right?
Anyway you're reply's has been great!

Thanks again!
 
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No, he means motley-stripe in the F1. In all but like 1 or 2 cases of breeding motley to stripe, this has been the case.

The reason is that the motley and striped traits appear to be alleles. That is, they occupy the same place on the same chromosome. So when breeding motley to stripe, there is no "normal" gene to be passed down to the babies. They get one motley gene, and one stripe gene, paired with each other instead of paired with a "normal" gene.

Thus, the dominant gene is absent. The F1s are not going to be ormals, and will take on an appearance of anything from motley-looking to striped-looking.

Also, there's definitely variation in how drastically the motley trait will affect the dorsal/lateral pattern of an individual. (That's basically what motley means: unpredictable, variable, mixed up.) It's definitely possible to breed two motleys together and get what would (at first glance) appear to be non-motleys. Generally, though, the belly is a telltale sign, as it will be checkerless. So they are still motleys, they're just not "high quality" motleys. ;)
 
Thank you!

Okay...so the stripe and the motley gene are a mutation on the same place, so they mix with each other in the f1. COOL!:D
You understanded the thing about the motley's right when I said that the offspring wolud not have to be 100% motley looking. Ahaaa...so the motley belly's are checkerless..i didn't thoght of that.. So the dorsal (is dorsal right? hehe....hard english) pattern can be total motley, little motley or none motley patterned, thats what i thouhgt. So the pattern mutations is a little bit harder to get "nice looking", but if u breed those motley's that are not motley patterned they can still produce "nice looking" motleys cause they are homozygos for motley right?

I just got to say one thing to you serpwidgets, You rule!:D
I'm going to try to get as good as you in corn-genetics, I'm only 15 year's old so i have some time to learn.

Thanks!
 
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