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My new litter is dead!

H

Heather M.

New member
I posted yesterday about how one of my female mice had her first litter of six pinks.

Well, they are all dead because they were eaten. :cry:

The babies seemed healthy, wriggly, and had milk bands on their stomaches (which means they were eating fine). The mom was very attentive and seemed loving, the other female too, and even the dad...he would bring in bedding, food for the mom, and licked a couple of the babies, then laid next to them.

I looked through the cage before I went to bed last night and saw one of the mice (not sure which one) eating one baby (which I thought "sad but it happens"). The rest were still heathly and alive. I looked through the cage this morning before I went to work...the same five healthy babies. I came back after work and thought it sounded too quiet so I opened the cage to see...no babies, just blood soaked bedding.

What happened? Did I do something wrong? If they eat their next litter should I cull them and start a new colony?
 
No, I don't think you did anything wrong. I hear its pretty common to have the mice eat there first litters, though I have not experienced it.

Ryan
 
I had a litter the same day you did, and the mouse who had them, also had a littler about a month or so ago which she ate.

This time she's being very attentive and not shown any signs of eating the babies.

Just let them have another litter see what happens, and personally I think if they did eat the next litter I would start all over.

Good luck!
 
Its a pretty sad thing. Two out of my three females in my rat colony just had their first litters, and each mother ate one baby as I watched helplessly. Though, the other 16 pups are doing very well.

Id go with the advice you have already heard, give them one more chance then if they eat em all again, send them to the big bad freezer.
 
Thank you everybody! You made me feel a lot better. :)

I cleaned out their cage so they get a fresh start with everything.
After I cleaned the cage and put them back, my male started breeding with the female that gave birth so if she gets pregnant again then I should have another litter in three weeks. I also saw him breed with the other female last week so if she's pregnant than I should have a litter from her in two weeks.

With the next litter I'm going to take the male out and see if that helps anything.

I've definitately decided that if all the babies from my next litters are eaten then I'm going to cull my mice and start over with a new colony.

Thanks again!
 
don't remove the male. Don't change colony dynamics in mice. They are social and messing with their colony causes more problems than it solves. They are not "nice" social~ but social as in change the dynamic enough and they will kill each other.

Most likely the pups were killed because the colony was new and it just happens with first time moms and aunts sometimes.

BUT~
It could be because you were checking on them so often. To them you are a giant predator~ their instincts insist they should kill the pups that will not survive the giant predator so the next litters have a better chance to survive. So try checking them less often next time just in case that was the problem.

OR
You may have a killer. It happens sometimes. One of the females is usually the culprit~ but sometimes it's the male. What you describe where the pups where all fine and then killed sounds like that to me. Like the mother was protecting them and when she was forced to get up for a feed another mouse moved in for the kill. What you want to do in that case is watch casually. Don't open the tub and re-arrange to count pups~ don't pull mice out of the colony and try to replace them. Just watch. What your watching for is a mouse that snatches a squeaking pup and kills it. If the mouse is only eating a dead pup that may not be your culprit. All the mice will do that to clean the area. Watch for the one actually DOING the killing. Feed THAT mouse out.

But don't pull the male and try to put him back later. Don't pull any of the mice and try to put them back later. Leave the colony in tact~ pull the one you believe is the killer~ feed it out~ and allow a pup to come up in the colony to replace her.

Good luck
 
Other possible causes could be diet, not enough protein or not enough food period. If they perceive that their isn't enoiugh food or water to support the litter, they may kill it. If the cage is too small the same thing may happen and they may reduce their numbers. Or stress could cause it.
 
Thanks for the extra advice!

I'll remember all of this for next time.

Hopefully I don't have a killer on my hands. :twoguns: The reason I couldn't tell which one it was last night eating that one baby was because they are all red-eyed whites...the only differences between them is the male obviously has testicles and the females are pretty much the same except for one female is slightly smaller...so unless I can see if one has testicles or see side by side comparisons of the females, I can never really tell who is who. The one who was eating the baby was in their igloo house facing out towards me and the mouse never turned around or came out...all three mice were in there together with the babies.

Anyway, thanks again! I hope I have better luck next time.
 
It's very strange, since I've been here I've noticed alot of this kind of behavior mentioned. But when I used to breed mice as a kid, this never happened with mine.
Not that I think I was such a great 13 yr old mouse breeder, but when I think of what's different, the only thing I can imagine is that my mice were pets. I held them every day and they knew me really well. Could it be that mice that are not very tame with people feel really nervous about breeding in close proximity to people? I've read that that's actually a rodent response to predators, "OK! Pack up the protein people! It's time to move!!"

If you haven't already, you might try getting your breeders comfortable with you in their space. If that's a gross thought to you (I know it is with some snake people!!) then keep your eyes on the prize!
And if you have already, well forget I said anything!
 
It's very strange, since I've been here I've noticed alot of this kind of behavior mentioned. But when I used to breed mice as a kid, this never happened with mine.

Not that I think I was such a great 13 yr old mouse breeder, but when I think of what's different, the only thing I can imagine is that my mice were pets. I held them every day and they knew me really well. Could it be that mice that are not very tame with people feel really nervous about breeding in close proximity to people? I've read that that's actually a rodent response to predators, "OK! Pack up the protein people! It's time to move!!"

If you haven't already, you might try getting your breeders comfortable with you in their space. (Holding them etc. hand feeding healthy treats) If you don't like mice, then keep your eyes on the prize! Do it for all the snake food!
And if I'm totally wrong and your mice are very much your pets, forget I ever mentioned it.. Obviously I'm guessing here..

:-offtopic

Did I use the word "alto" anywhere in this post? Why is spell check telling me to change the word alto?
 
And how did I end up posting twice while I while I was composing that?
Does cornsnakes.com not like the safari browser? :sidestep:
 
I'm not grossed out my mice...I love all animals.

These mice aren't tame because they came from Petco so they didn't get held. They don't bite or anything but they will just sniff your hand then usually walk or run away.

I've also only had them since January 1st of this year.
 
Heather M. said:
What happened? Did I do something wrong? If they eat their next litter should I cull them and start a new colony?
Click to expand...

In my case, I made sure I gave the females EACH a chance with their first litter - it took six weeks or so to get a litter, because each of six females ate their first one.

However, now they're doing fine and popping me out babies regularly... I think it's in part because they need a 'practice run' before they know how to take care of the babies properly instead of making 'novice' mistakes like forgetting to feed them (and they become sickly, where instinct makes them get rid of the sickly ones) or starting to groom them and getting carried away.

Also in my experience so far, when I put an experienced mother in with younger females who are just getting to 'able to have babies' age and a young male, Mama will teach the other females how to care for babies. So long as I've had at least one experienced female to sub in for any new cage I start, I've not had the 'first litter = mousey snack food' problem.
 
I just had a situation where the females in one of my cages ate the last 3 litters born. All of my other cages are doing very well and this cage used to do just great. I didn't even try to figure out which one was the murderer. I removed all three mothers (snake food now) and replaced them with brand new females.
 
Ssthisto said:
In my case, I made sure I gave the females EACH a chance with their first litter - it took six weeks or so to get a litter, because each of six females ate their first one.

However, now they're doing fine and popping me out babies regularly... I think it's in part because they need a 'practice run' before they know how to take care of the babies properly instead of making 'novice' mistakes like forgetting to feed them (and they become sickly, where instinct makes them get rid of the sickly ones) or starting to groom them and getting carried away.

Also in my experience so far, when I put an experienced mother in with younger females who are just getting to 'able to have babies' age and a young male, Mama will teach the other females how to care for babies. So long as I've had at least one experienced female to sub in for any new cage I start, I've not had the 'first litter = mousey snack food' problem.
Click to expand...
This is something I have done as well and have success with in breeding our mice. The only problem comes when that senior female gets old and she turns around and starts eating every last pink born. So, watching the behavior of the females over time and removing the older, senior mice help prevent lost litters. Same with older senior males as they might turn around and start killing off young male mice. But generally there are fewer problems with the colonies that I have started this way.

Good luck and I hope they do better with the next litter!
 
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