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My poor little girl is lumpy!

T

ticky1105

New member
:nope:OK. I don't know if this is the right place to put this thread. I'm fairly new to the whole snake business, but I bought Ticky ( a male hatchling) for my son and since he is four and I am the care taker I fell in love and wanted another one! I went to a reptile show on the third and bought a gorgeous female snow (four years old). I thought Ticky is soo lovable, she will be too! LOL not! I don't know if its my smell or she thinks I'm a real hungry monster and should never be trusted or maybe it's a female thing, but I am beginning to think she hates me! So needless to say we have a rocky start.

Now to my point...
I fed her for the second time on Tuesday (she rattled her tail at me the entire time as she was eating) and yesterday (Wednesday) I was looking at her in the aquarium and noticed she looked lumpy. Now I expect to see one lump but there were several. Is this eggs? And if so is that why she is being so testy, me being new and her being gravid? I would post a picture but I'm at work. The top half of her is smooth. But after her belly it's bumpy (one lump is probably the mouse). She really hates when I touch her but she felt a little less smooth than Ticky when I put her in her bin to feed her. Also she spends most her time in the moss that I have in there. (kinda like a wet hide, in case they feel a little dry or are starting to shed). She hasn't been with any males (or any other snake) since I had her but she was "proven" when I bought her. I am going to be gone (vacation) next week, will she be all right? She still is eating, still as feisty as ever with me, no signs of shedding (but she is white so its hard to tell). I'm at a loss with her (trying not to get attached because I probably will be giving her away/ trading her for a male hatchling if I can. I think I'm not ready to take on an adult female. ( I know I should have thought about that before I got her)) But I'm worried about her and the Mommy in me is kicking in and I definitely can't give her/ trade her if she is unwell. Do I need to make a vet appt.? or should I wait and see if things get better? Is it eggs? I just don't know. I'm going to have one of my friends at work come look at her but she owns pythons and isn't familiar with corns.

Hopefully tonight I will be able to post some pictures. And I am sorry, yall probably get these post all the time, but I am really worried about her and don't know what to do. :shrugs:
 
If someone wants I can email them a picture from my phone to show them what im talking about with the lumps or if they want to post it for me!
 
All the behaviour points to her being gravid. She may lay fertile or infertile eggs, or she may just reabsorb them after a few weeks without laying anything.

As long as she has no other health problems, your best bet is to leave her absolutely in peace. Constantly checking on her or taking her to the vet, might cause her to become eggbound.

A photo would help, although generally, lumps caused by eggs are quite difficult to see (easier to feel). If there's a bigger lump in one particular spot in her body, then this could indicate that she's already eggbound. Are the lumps evenly spaced?
 
The lumps are pretty evenly spaced but they are large enough to see. I would post a picture but can't at work. Tonight when I get home I will. But Im pretty sure the largest lump is her mouse since it seems to take her at least two days before I start picking up poop. :) I was searching old threads and I did see an eariler thread with a picture that looks like her body shape except for the bottom. For a lack of a better way to put it, she doesn't look like she is about to poop.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100997


But if you look at that thread, the part of that snake that is at the very bottom of the picture, kinda looks like it is leaning against the bin. Is what Bones, my snake's name, looks like.
 
i would definitely leave her alone, and make absolutely certain that her wet hide remains moist. it does indeed sound like she has some eggs in her.

you say you got her on the 3rd. is that July 3rd? it's possible that she is going to shed very soon, and if she IS gravid, that would be her pre-lay shed. since she is a snow, i would definitely keep my eyes open for a shed. i never, EVER can tell when my adult snow is going into shed, unless i catch him while his eyes are completely blue. sometimes i don't even realize he has shed until i pick him up and notice he's feeling smoother.

do you have any idea what the breeder's name is that you got your snow girl from? (most vendors will usually give you a business card with their contact info) if possible, try to get in contact with them and see what they think. it's possible this female is going to continue to lay eggs even though she hasn't been bred. they will most likely be infertile, unless she has retained some sperm from previous breedings.

just keep her comfortable and make sure you keep an eye out for a shed/eggs. don't continually check up on her though, as others have said. it can cause your snake stress.

i think that her pissy behaviour may be directly related to her being gravid. i have a female who is due to lay ANY day now (in fact, she's 16 days past her pre-lay shed) and boy oh boy i sure don't stick my hand in there very often anymore, lol. she hisses, tail rattles, and rears all the way up and back, in a very intimidating "S" shape.

just make sure she's comfortable, and wait it out. i'm sure her attitude will change for you
 
another note since you posted that last response:

i've never been able to see actual lumps in my gravid snakes, but the most tell-tale sign for me is that when they are gravid, their spine looks like it sticks up a lot more. if you lay them down flat and look from their tail-end to their head end, it should look peaked a little bit, like a mountain. it's hard to see if you don't have experience with it though. last year i COMPLETELY missed a snake being gravid because i couldn't tell by look.

here's a good reference for signs of being gravid:
http://www.vmsherp.com/LCBreedingCorns.htm

here's another method, but i'm not sure i would use it at this time. if you take a soft cloth, microfibre or fleece is best, and take your snake out of it's cage, guide the snakes head into the cage so that her whole body is sticking out. as she starts to crawl back into her viv, wrap the microfibre cloth around your hand, and place your fingers under her belly. if she's gravid, you should feel a very distinct "string of pearls" bob up and down over your fingers as she slithers along.
 
Katia: Yes It was July, I've only had her two weeks. The vendor there told me she had clutches before, but she had not been bred before I bought her and it was very unlikely that she would lay unless bred by me. I made sure to ask because I didn't want any babies! lol So I hope it will be all slugs. I'm really not ready to have eggs.

Now I have a little gladeware type shallow dish in there now with a lid (lunch plate size)and moss but should I put something in there that will be bigger? (a gallon ice-cream bucket?) She seems to prefer a tighter hide but will that interfere with laying?

Yeesh! I think I need to go back and reread some of the books I bought!
 
Here are the pictures!

Sorry about the poor quality, they are from my cell phone.

3.jpg


2.jpg
 
Blimey! That really is pretty extreme. From the looks of her, she's already clamping down on the eggs for them to show up so clearly.

Leave the current laying box in with her and leave her absolutely in peace to lay for 48 hours - don't even peek. Maybe cover the tank with a towel to prevent her being disturbed by movement in the room. Obviously it's very difficult to "diagnose" from a photo, but I'd say she may already be on the way to eggbinding and is hanging onto the eggs.

Remember that just because you get eggs, doesn't mean that you have to incubate them. Dealing with a bunch of hatchlings isn't something I'd necessarily recommend to somebody new to Corns.
 
That's kinda what I was thinking . I'm going to shut the door to thier room. I'm sure Ticky won't mind the peace n quiet for a bit himself . When do you think it would be wise to bring her to the vet if she doesn't lay? Should a full week be good? Too much?
 
I am wondering if these bumps are also visible if she is slithering around her body stretched? I do know that for example my boyfriend has thought to see bumps in a somewhat curled up snake, but it was only relaxing. Their body might look lumpy then but actually there are just curves switching sides. The bumps in your corn don't look like eggs IMO. Eggs give bulges that you can see at both sides, not like the whole body follows consecutive s-shapes. Especially if she did eat I don't think she has eggs. Most gravid females stop eating one or 2 weeks before the prey-laying shes, and I'm pretty convinced that if she would be egg bound in a way that eggs are showing very clearly, she would not eat. I'll try to find a pic of one of my snakes relaxing and showing these 'bulges'.

Of course, it won't hurt to act if she is about to lay, it won't harm her is she is actually not. If she is about to lay and you don't take precautions, you might accidentally put her in trouble.
 
Not all females stop eating. My brass only stopped eating a week and a half before laying because I stopped giving her feeders. She would have eaten right up to laying if I had let her.
 
I know, that's why I said most females :) And I also think that corns which are visibly egg bound (cramped eggs), most likely don't eat. They probably don't feel very well.
 
And by the way, how did you know your brass would have eaten up until laying? They do stop quite sudden sometimes.
 
I just went in there to refill Ticky's water dish and bones was out. I didn't go by her cage but she was out and looked a little skinny/ smoother. But that was just me glancing at a distance. I didn't want to disturb her she was heading back into her wet hide. Does it smell when they lay because it smelled a little funky in there. Not horribly but just different.
 
Blutengel said:
And by the way, how did you know your brass would have eaten up until laying? They do stop quite sudden sometimes.
Click to expand...

LOL you got me, I only stopped feeding her because someone I trust told me it would be best not to feed her after her prelay shed. She was feisty and acting hungry up to the time I peeked at her before going to bed the night she laid. I had fed the others that night or the night before and had peeked at her. I know she smelled the feeders on my hands, she followed them quite closely though she never struck. But you do have me there! I do not know if she might have eaten the night she laid or the night before. I do know she ate like a piggy the morning after she laid lol!
 
ticky1105 said:
I just went in there to refill Ticky's water dish and bones was out. I didn't go by her cage but she was out and looked a little skinny/ smoother. But that was just me glancing at a distance. I didn't want to disturb her she was heading back into her wet hide. Does it smell when they lay because it smelled a little funky in there. Not horribly but just different.
Click to expand...

Didn't smell when Brass laid but she had defficated a couple of days prior, maybe your girl laid AND pooped? Could be :shrugs:
 
Laying does not smell IMO, pipping does!

@carnivorous: They also act feisty because they are gravid/close to laying :)
 
Update on Bones....
I just got back from out of town and went to check on them and give them water. She is smooth as can be. No eggs in sight (yay!). Unfortunately she still hates me but at least she is looking healthy.

The smell was some poop. And I guess the lumps was just relaxed "s" shapes but I have to say it was freaky. Thanks everyone for your responses/ advice. It really helped me feel not so panicky about the situation .
 
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