Nanci,the striped specialist, query about clutch

[daddio207]

Nanci, your thoughts on this clutch? Dad is a Goldust stripe and Mom is a amel stripe. I was expecting all ultramel/amel stripes het caramel but there is a few here that makes me wonder if there was some hidden hets. Here's pics of 5 of the 8 hatchlings after their first shed. The other 3 look like pic 4. It's 3 and 5 that intrigues me.
I think I've made pretty evident on this site that corn genetics is not my strong suite. LOL
Thanks

 

[Shiari]

One of your parent snakes is not a stripe, but probably a pinstripe motley-stripe. That explains why you have phenotypical classic and pinstripe motleys (genetically motley-stripe).

 

[daddio207]

One of your parent snakes is not a stripe, but probably a pinstripe motley-stripe. That explains why you have phenotypical classic and pinstripe motleys (genetically motley-stripe).

Thank you..

Both parents are visually classic stripes. Mom and Dad's stripes are identical to baby 4.

The pic below is from a post by Nanci and she stated "This is a motley, absolutely, positively no stripe, homo or het, involved."
So my baby 3 is just motley ? And that is possible because the motley and stripe genes are alleles and have the same locus?
I recall a poster on FB that posted a pic of a hatchling like baby 2 and stated no motley involved!?!

 

[Dragonling]

No, that was just an example of a homo motley with a perfect pinstripe pattern, indicating that stripe isn't necessary for a pinstripe phenotype.

Is this the amel parent from your facebook page?

This amel has a pinstripe motley phenotype. Because you have stripes and motleys in your clutch, this means it is genetically motley stripe.

 

[Nanci]

I see stripe, motley, stripe, stripe, motley. I'd love to see the parents!

The snake of mine above is the daughter of FMM. FMM, a Miami pinstripe motley, was tested with a homo stripe, to look for a hidden stripe gene (which I didn't think was there, but Don Soderberg did speculate was responsible for the pinstripe phenotype). There were no stripes in the clutch, and the motleys, even were more classic motley patterned, with little to no pinstriped segments.

However, if you breed two pinstriped specimens, the clutch is all pinstriped.

 

[daddio207]

Thanks for the responses......
Dragonling, Yes that's Mom
Nanci, Here is a pic of both parents right before mating.
Here's their history.....
The Sire is from ZoologyGirl. He was sold as a Goldust Stripe.
Now the Dam was purchased at Zoo Creatures (NERDS) as a bloodred het snow. I believe they said it was either produced there or produced for them. I immediately question the genes but my GF liked her so bought her. I sent a pic to Don S. for identification which he did as a Amel Stripe. I questioned how ZC could miss-label it a bloodred and he suggested to send the pic to Rich Hume which I did. I did not tell Rich that Don ID'd it already so not to influence him. Rich also identified her as a Amel Stripe.

 

[Nanci]

So Mom is definitely a pinstripe motley, not a stripe. She is het motley, het stripe.
mᵐ mˢ

We know she is het stripe because she produced stripe babies.

But you see how skinny her central stripe is, compared to the male's? Then, she also has a break in the stripe at the neck. This indicates motley. A motley _may_ be connected at the neck, so that doesn't mean every snake who has a continuous line is a stripe, but the break is STRONGLY indicative of motley. To clarify- the difference in stripe width is the key indicator of motley here, regardless of what is going on with the pattern at the neck.

 

[Nanci]

I wish you'd sent the photo to me without me knowing about the Don/Rich history!! But- I'd 100% ID her as a pinstripe motley, for the reasons listed, without even seeing the offspring.

 

[daddio207]

So Mom is definitely a pinstripe motley, not a stripe. She is het motley, het stripe.
mᵐ mˢ

We know she is het stripe because she produced stripe babies.

But you see how skinny her central stripe is, compared to the male's? Then, she also has a break in the stripe at the neck. This indicates motley. A motley _may_ be connected at the neck, so that doesn't mean every snake who has a continuous line is a stripe, but the break is STRONGLY indicative of motley. To clarify- the difference in stripe width is the key indicator of motley here, regardless of what is going on with the pattern at the neck.

Thank you !! your explanation was clear and precise until your second post below LOL

I wish you'd sent the photo to me without me knowing about the Don/Rich history!! But- I'd 100% ID her as a stripe, for the reasons listed, without even seeing the offspring.

Now i'm confused over what I take as conflicting statements in BOLD.
Sorry I'm not "getting" what your saying now. Could you clarify? Did you mean to say "pinstripe" in the second post?

 

[Shiari]

She's a pinstripe. She has all the markers for a pinstripe, and none for a stripe. Nanci's second statement is a typo.

 

[Nanci]

Sorry- typo. Was working, too. I fixed it.

 

[daddio207]

Sorry- typo. Was working, too. I fixed it.

Just wanted to make sure

Thanks again for taking time at work to answer!!

 

[Nanci]

Your baby 3 is a stripe, not a motley. Look at the width of the stripe.

 

[daddio207]

Your baby 3 is a stripe, not a motley. Look at the width of the stripe.

What I've been missing in all this stripe and motley stuff is which stripe everybody was referring too. I've always been thinking it's the two stripes next to the center dorsal stripe but it is the center dorsal stripe that is being referenced. Baby 3's lack of pattern and the stripe being the same color of the sides caused me to only focus on the two pinstripes running down its back.
Stripe is so obvious now thanks to your help.