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Need Help

Erika N.

Erika N.

Waiting in anticipation!
Okay, I was sold a corn snake as an Ultra Caramel het Bloodred from a member on this forum. I asked my typical questions and was pretty intent about trying to find the original breeder. Well unfortunately the snake had been through 4 hands already before she got to mine. So deciding that it was worth a shot, especially since I later learned that they are all members of CS. I messaged each one, after I found out the name from the previous person, and low and behold I got responses from all but one. Now comes the problem. The original breeder says that he never produced Ultra Caramels though he may have produced an Ultramel het caramel, bloodred. Now I know the only way to be sure of what exactly she is is to breed her but I would like every ones professional opinion on what I really have here. Either way I don't really care what she actually is for I love her despite it but I hate not knowing. lol

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If I breed her to Zephyr (Caramel Blood het Amel phet Charcoal) next year here is the possible offspring if she was really an Ultra Caramel het Bloodred.

Phenotype:

1 / 2 Gold Dust ( Ultramel, Caramel ) het Diffused
1 / 2 Diffused Gold Dust ( Ultramel, Caramel, Diffused )
Genotype:

1 / 2 Ultramel, Caramel het Diffused
1 / 2 Ultramel, Caramel, Diffused

If she turns out to be an Ultramel het Caramel, Bloodred...

Phenotype:

1 / 16 Ultramel het Diffused, Caramel
1 / 8 Caramel het Diffused, Amel or Ultra
1 / 16 Amel het Diffused, Caramel
1 / 8 Diffused het Caramel, Amel or Ultra
1 / 8 Normal het Diffused, Caramel, Amel or Ultra
1 / 16 Gold Dust ( Ultramel, Caramel ) het Diffused
1 / 16 Butter ( Amel, Caramel ) het Diffused
1 / 16 Fire ( Amel, Diffused ) het Caramel
1 / 8 Diffused Caramel ( Caramel, Diffused ) het Amel or Ultra
1 / 16 Diffused Ultramel ( Ultramel, Diffused ) het Caramel
1 / 16 Sulfur ( Amel, Caramel, Diffused )
1 / 16 Diffused Gold Dust ( Ultramel, Caramel, Diffused )
Genotype:

1 / 16 Caramel het Amel, Diffused
1 / 16 Caramel het Ultra, Diffused
1 / 16 Ultramel het Caramel, Diffused
1 / 16 Diffused het Amel, Caramel
1 / 16 Diffused het Ultra, Caramel
1 / 16 Amel het Caramel, Diffused
1 / 16 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Diffused
1 / 16 Normal het Ultra, Caramel, Diffused
1 / 16 Ultramel, Caramel het Diffused
1 / 16 Caramel, Diffused het Amel
1 / 16 Caramel, Diffused het Ultra
1 / 16 Amel, Caramel het Diffused
1 / 16 Ultramel, Diffused het Caramel
1 / 16 Amel, Diffused het Caramel
1 / 16 Ultramel, Caramel, Diffused
1 / 16 Amel, Caramel, Diffused
 
I too wondered if she were a golddust but her eyes are very different from my ultramel's. So I kept the label as what she was purchased as. From my understanding there is a thread on here specifically for ultra caramel vs golddust; let me see if I can dig it up.
 
DragonsDenSerpents said:
I too wondered if she were a golddust but her eyes are very different from my ultramel's. So I kept the label as what she was purchased as. From my understanding there is a thread on here specifically for ultra caramel vs golddust; let me see if I can dig it up.
Click to expand...
That would be helpful cause its looking like either she is an Ultramel, Golddust, or is actually an Ultra Caramel. The problem is that I can't get a hold of the first buyer. He hasn't been active since dec. of last year so I'm stuck attempting to figure all of this out without his/her input. :(
 
Could you tell us the first buyer's ID? Someone here might be in contact with them outside the forum and may be able to give alternative contact details.

Other than that, I'd be strongly inclined to take the breeder's word for it, as you've managed to trace them and had a response. Mistakes in labelling do happen and the more a snake is passed around, the more likely it is for the original designation to be lost or muddled.
 
bitsy said:
Could you tell us the first buyer's ID? Someone here might be in contact with them outside the forum and may be able to give alternative contact details.

Other than that, I'd be strongly inclined to take the breeder's word for it, as you've managed to trace them and had a response. Mistakes in labelling do happen and the more a snake is passed around, the more likely it is for the original designation to be lost or muddled.
Click to expand...

Here is what I've been able to piece together as the chain from breeder to me.

Breeder: Emanon
First Buyer: Juniors Serpents
Second Buyer: albinoscooby
Third Buyer: DragonsDenSerpents
Fourth Buyer: Erika N. (Me)
 
Erika N. said:
If I breed her to Zephyr (Caramel Blood het Amel phet Charcoal) next year here is the possible offspring if she was really an Ultra Caramel het Bloodred.

Phenotype:

1 / 2 Gold Dust ( Ultramel, Caramel ) het Diffused
1 / 2 Diffused Gold Dust ( Ultramel, Caramel, Diffused )
Genotype:

1 / 2 Ultramel, Caramel het Diffused
1 / 2 Ultramel, Caramel, Diffused
Click to expand...


Somewhere in that calculation, you plugged the morphs in wrong. An ultra caramel het diffused to a caramel diffused het amel would give you:

Caramels het ultra, diffused.
Diffused Caramels het ultra.
Ultramel caramels het diffused
Ultramel caramel diffused.
 
Shiari said:
Somewhere in that calculation, you plugged the morphs in wrong. An ultra caramel het diffused to a caramel diffused het amel would give you:

Caramels het ultra, diffused.
Diffused Caramels het ultra.
Ultramel caramels het diffused
Ultramel caramel diffused.
Click to expand...

That I did.

Thanks
 
I found your girl's baby pic from that owner you can't locate. She sure does look like an ultra caramel. He doesn't mention anything about her being het diffuse though.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102515&highlight=ultra

In his thread about the males he got to go with the females, he does mention producing ultra caramel bloods, which would be possible with all the pairs he got, but not how many generations it would take.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103125&highlight=ultra

***Please Note***--> But if you notice, he has a different breeder than the one you mentioned, which may be why your breeder said he has never produced any ultra caramels. I suggest that you try contacting Hector (link to UniqueSnakes' profile) to see if he has the genetic information you seek about the snake he sold to Juniors Serpents which is now in your possession.
 
Nice detective work Susan! That should help Erika get to the bottom of things.
 
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