new snake mom and I need help. Also, very long.

[heatherb7]

Hey all! No, I am not anxious about my snake but more so for my snake... I have researched snakes for a long period of time and finally decided to pull the trigger yesterday and get one. Of course, I got a corn snake! I am also long winded and super excited to talk about my snake so I have left my major questions/issues in bold type. I also spent a lot of money and a lot of consideration on her so no negative talk about how I do not have a proper set up or any of that. I googled what her poop will look like before I even got her. Who does that?

Athena is about 6 weeks according to the seller and about 14" long. I have her in a 40 gallon glass tank. I live in a "basement" type house - I am built into a hill - so I have had a hard time keeping the temperature regulated in the tank. First off, I have two thermometers both digital both with humidity levels. I have an overhead heat lamp (both blue daylight and infrared night) and just purchased the underneath heat pad. So far both lamp and pad is working to keep one side consistently 82 and the other 71. At night 69-70 all around (which I have been told many different things about this... should i keep the gradient at night as well or just during the day?) I know the temperatures are guidelines and not exactly rules - I have read 70/85 and everything else in between. I've noticed she spends the majority of her time in the cooler area of her tank so perhaps just the heat pad is sufficient? I do leave the heat pad on at night... I have only used the infrared light to view her at night and for very short periods of time.

My biggest issue is humidity levels. I have to mist the tank several times a day or else we drop down to 25%. I feel a lot of this is because of the heat lamp because my house is kept around 55% (I live in the south and suffer from serious dry skin in the winter). I also have aspen substrate which I am not partial to at all, and actually would prefer to use something else. I have thought about purchasing a humidifier type thing... but they are so bulky and I barely have any room left where she is currently located. However, I will make due if that is what I have to do. I was just hoping there is another way around it.

I have also noticed she likes to climb and wrap herself around the thermometers so I went back today and purchased more vines and some heat treated sticks which I have strategically hung around the cage in an amazing jungle gym formation. A ridiculous snake hammock she has become pretty fond of. She has a half hollow log for a hide in the cool side which she prefers, a hide under her water bowl in the center area of the tank which is a decent sized rock bowl with a ledge, a twisted rock formation on the warm side with vines around half the side of it so she can hide there (the hide is not over the heated pad but near it), there are also various plants and small vines here and there. Nothing really tall on the warm side because I do not want her frying herself on the heat from the lamp. She is very active and curious (probably because it has been forced upon her). Is this too much? ha.

There are a few things I am nervous/excited about. Obviously, feeding time. Not because mice! More so because I have seen videos where the young cornsnakes had to be coaxed into eating and some where they struck before the pinkie was even near them. I have a separate cage for her for when she feeds and I have tongs. This cage doesn't have anything in it at all (except bright yellow lining on the edges) My biggest worry is that I will not feed her enough or too much. How do I know when to feed her more pinkies or more often? I have her feeding schedule, shes been given one pinkie every Wednesday. I have read online that you base the feeding off of weight and if you do not move up to larger mice her head will never grow large enough for larger mice... ?? If she doesn't eat, how long should I give her before i give up on the situation?

I have also noticed today that she has a blue cast over her eyes so she should be shedding soon. Feeding time is soon. If she doesn't eat I assume it will be because she is (or may be by Wednesday) shedding. Obviously if she is shedding Wednesday I will not feed her. How soon should I feed her after she sheds? Also, I really need to get this humidity thing figured out asap because she is going to shed. I have a container ready, just need some moss, so I can build her a "shed box".

Ok. That is all. I think. For now. Sorry, so many questions and too many conflicting answers online. I just need the experts to tell me straight up.

 

[Bullelk]

My knowledge comes from owning two hatchlings and reading a lot of people's great posts on this site. I know that your answers are in other threads if you search, but I'll try to help a little.

First, if you are using both the heat pad, and a heat lamp, you can stop using the heat lamp. The under tank pad is all it needs. Especially if it stays away from that side of the tank that uses the lamp. It's tryimg to tell you it's too hot. Even the under tank heater can be too warm (I use a dimmer). Plus this will help with your humidity problem. Keep your heater on at night as well. Keep a comfy gradient at all times. Let the snake pick where it wants to be in that gradient.

Aspen is fine. My snakes love to burrow so they love their shredded aspen. You have other options, some use newspaper, maybe search the forum for a list of options. If you want to raise the humidity they sell balls of moss that you can put into the warm hide and this will raise it to where it needs to be in that area.

For feeding remover two things, 1. The Munson Plan. 2. Your snake wants to live. It will eat. Don't stress. If you read the Plan, you wont over feed or underfeed. Get a food scale for 15$ at Walmart. That's how I weight my snakes.

Also don't feed the snake if it's mid shed. Someone not long ago posted on here about sheds getting stuck at the bump and the problems this created. I would avoid that if possible. I would still feed with blue eyes, but realize it may not take the food. Baby snakes are scared to eat in front of you and I love pretending the little mouse is alive (I use thawed) and baiting the snake into being interested in it.

My snakes a healthy after listening to the advice here. I'm sure yours will be too.

 

[Bullelk]

Remember* not remover... Sorry!

 

[heatherb7]

Thank you so much! I know a lot of this information is online and in these forums but a lot of it is conflicting.

I purchased a scale today and went ahead and fed her (I was told once a week by the seller - but doing the munson chart now) It went really well. Got rid of the heat lamp. Humidity has been restored!

Also, I am curious do most people always feed frozen mice or is there a certain point in which i should switch to live?

Thanks again!

 

[hypnoctopus]

I definitely recommend frozen thawed. It's easier for you, safer for the snake, and more humane for the mouse.

 

[smigon]

I also spent a lot of money and a lot of consideration on her so no negative talk about how I do not have a proper set up or any of that.

Welcome! We are glad to have you, and you have found a great site for the best information on care of corn snakes.

You may want to have a little more of an open mind, the suggestions given won't be negative but may not be what you opted to do. Please be prepared to take any and all advice as help, not as bashing your research or the way you chose to do things. If you do, you will learn SO much here, and know that we are only here to teach newbies like we all were once and to continue to learn. Every day is something different with your new kiddo, so don't ever hesitate to ask a question or question an answer given. The only stupid questions are the ones not asked!

I do want to address your setup, your hides sound perfect, and I can relate to the changing ambient temperatures in your home. My first suggestion (and most of us here agree) is to "ditch the lamp". They lower humidity, are prone to causing fires, the bulbs break easily and are expensive, they can cause blindness in some morphs and corns don't even need them! Corns need belly heat to digest their food, so your UTH is perfect for this, no additional heat source needed. A hide over the UTH is what is needed for the warm end and should remain on at all times.

If you set your thermostat to 87° for the UTH (this will bring the top of the substrate - and aspen is really the way to go - to around 85° on the warm side, a perfect temp for corns), and the cool end will be balanced out to around 75°. Even if the cool end is a little cooler that is okay, the snake will find a happy middle ground in one of the hides around the viv.

My biggest issue is humidity levels. I have to mist the tank several times a day or else we drop down to 25%. I feel a lot of this is because of the heat lamp because my house is kept around 55% (I live in the south and suffer from serious dry skin in the winter). I also have aspen substrate which I am not partial to at all, and actually would prefer to use something else.

I live in the low desert of Phoenix, I get where you are coming from! There are a fairly decent sized group of us here on the forum from Arizona and even though we have low humidity it usually isn't a problem. I don't think getting the humidifier would benefit the snake much unless you start having bad sheds. If your sheds come off in one piece (and check the eyecaps and tail tips!) then the humidity is fine. Only twice with my 13 corns have I ever had a bad shed. The misting can cause mildew or mold which is much worse. If you feel the need, add a larger or second waterbowl to the viv.

What were you thinking of using for substrate besides aspen? Obviously you have done some great research, what are your better choices?

I have also noticed she likes to climb and wrap herself around the thermometers so I went back today and purchased more vines and some heat treated sticks which I have strategically hung around the cage in an amazing jungle gym formation. A ridiculous snake hammock she has become pretty fond of. She has a half hollow log for a hide in the cool side which she prefers, a hide under her water bowl in the center area of the tank which is a decent sized rock bowl with a ledge, a twisted rock formation on the warm side with vines around half the side of it so she can hide there (the hide is not over the heated pad but near it), there are also various plants and small vines here and there. Nothing really tall on the warm side because I do not want her frying herself on the heat from the lamp. She is very active and curious (probably because it has been forced upon her). Is this too much? ha.

Your setup sounds great, babies LOVE ground cover like vines and leaves of plastic or silk plants to hide in, they feel more secure. There is almost nothing as "too much" in the decoration department!

As for feeding, THIS is a commonly used guide to feeding sizes of the mice. You can also use your eye to get the width of the prey no more than 1.5 times the widest width of the snake. This is a general guide, what you really want to see is a small bulge in their stomachs after they eat. Get a digital scale that weighs in grams (or 1/10 grams for the smaller mice and snake) and go by the Munson plan.

Never feed them in blue, just skip that feeding, they won't starve! Feed a day after shedding. I feed inside the viv, personal preference, but with a baby just place a pinky on a deli lid and put it in the viv or feeding bin. Watch for a minute, some corns are really shy about eating in front of you and if that is the case, cover the feeder with a towel for an hour, then check back. I wait 24 hours and if they haven't fed I toss the mouse and wait another week. Don't try feeding every day, make sure they are good and hungry!

Do you have Kathy Love or Don Soderberg's books? If not, get both. They are both members of this forum and have put out the best literature I have read on corns. I know it IS confusing, all the differing opinions on the web, but between the two of them their breeding and husbandry skills are the best. You can get them on Amazon.

Now we need pictures!!!

Hope this helps and I hope you don't think of this response in a negative way, I'd say about 90% of the members here have the same rule of thumb and would answer the same.

 

[smigon]

I have to apologize, I didn't read all of the answers before I responded! But it seems all of us are in agreement with what you have done, so you are on the right track!

 

[heatherb7]

You may want to have a little more of an open mind, the suggestions given won't be negative but may not be what you opted to do. Please be prepared to take any and all advice as help, not as bashing your research or the way you chose to do things.

I am sorry I came across as not having an open mind - that is not me at all. I had previous experience with a breeder online and was told all sorts of colorful verb-age about how I had no business owning a snake.

I think my attempt to explain how much I actually put into this may have sounded rude because of that. I did not go bare minimum and I do plan on having her for the rest of her life. I am not “oh I just got a cool snake for sake of it”. I just wanted to be taken seriously. It was wrong for me to start off that way; I am 100% open to those who give advice here.

Next, the bedding I have been looking at is coconut mulch. I have seen a lot of videos and reviews and it seems like this is commonly used. I have also read that it helps with keeping humidity levels up. However, I have decided to stick with aspen. My only real reason behind it is that I used to own rats and aspen caused us a lot of problems. So I was a little wary of it even though this is an entirely different species. My last rat passed away almost a year ago so no snake-rat worries.

I did order a book by Kathy Love. That is comforting a published author uses this forum.

******UPDATES******
So far we have been through our first feeding (Tuesday) and she shed today! I actually got to see her do it, which was pretty amazing! Perfect timing really. I noticed a lot of movement in the "bushes"; she was rubbing her face all over then she twisted herself around the vines and wiggled out of her skin. Full shed, except I tore it up getting it out of the vine, which sucks because I planned on keeping her first shed (I am not weird).

Eliminating the lamp has solved all our humidity problems. I noticed she was going to shed so I have been misting and boosted the humidity up 5-10% more, probably bad, I don't know. I know my skin hurts sometimes when it is dry so I could imagine what she felt like and I just had to. She may or may not be spoiled.

I have a dimmer switch set on the heat pad because the one I have (my only option at our local store aside from gigantic) does not have a setting other than off. Whatever setting I have it at is working because I have a decent gradient and she has ventured over to that side of the tank from time to time. I also imagine in the summer down here I am going to end up needing that lamp, as Mississippi gets pretty humid.

So far, everything is going great. She has become more active around her tank/cage/whatever. She doesn’t get skidish when I go to pick her up anymore. She loves being all stretched out which makes handling a little frustrating. <-- this isnt a bad sign is it? She would rather lie out long ways across both arms or across my chest instead of being wrapped around my hands/fingers. When my neighbor handled her today she wrapped right around her...

She is growing very quickly. Tuesday morning she weighed 8.5 grams and today she weighs 11.3 grams. I am using the Munson Feeding Chart now, I have seen a few that were different but Smigon validated the one I was using so... Feeding tomorrow!

 

[heatherb7]

I definitely recommend frozen thawed. It's easier for you, safer for the snake, and more humane for the mouse.

Thank you! I was curious if it was bad to keep them on frozen thawed or recommended to switch. As a previous owner of rats - this makes me feel better even though I made peace with it.

 

[heatherb7]

Here are some photos. Also, her name has changed. She is not an Athena afterall. Her name is now Simbi.

This is the first time I held her after we got home.

This is before I had her tank completely set up.

And this video is of her first feeding. The neighbor girl (who has an intellectual disability and loves Simbi) was the camera lady. It seems she was really close to the tank but was not - she had zoomed in. Also, I have a new tank to feed her in because I didn't like this one being clear and so small.

 

[heatherb7]

Except that none of my photos worked. Sorry.

http://tinypic.com/r/oprckn/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2d1lqxe/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2ui7mf4/8

 

[Bullelk]

Pictures aren't working for me, but I'm glad you are feeling like a more informed snake owner. It's a lot of fun.

 

[heatherb7]

Pictures aren't working for me, but I'm glad you are feeling like a more informed snake owner. It's a lot of fun.

It may have everything to do with me using my iphone to post to the forum... i uploaded links on the next post. Do they not work either?

Also, thank you! I am so excited!

 

[smigon]

I can click on the links and they work. I upload pics from my computer and they come out as the image itself without a link, but I am not sure how to do it with a phone.

Can someone else chime in here to help her?

BTW, she is SO darling! I won't hold the name change against you (I have an Athena too!).

 

[smigon]

Thank you! I was curious if it was bad to keep them on frozen thawed or recommended to switch. As a previous owner of rats - this makes me feel better even though I made peace with it.

I thought feeding the mice would be a much bigger mental problem for me too, but now I just look at them as a bag of food in the freezer. My husband and I make up stories about what they were doing when they were killed, some of them are in the funniest positions! (Okay, you have found out my secret, I am the biggest dork on the site!)

 

[smigon]

Oh, I also forgot to mention this.

I keep a journal on all my beasties, I always weigh each before they eat and examine them from tip to tail for stuck shed or scrapes or cuts, then feed them. I jot down the weight, what they ate (or refused), when they shed, when they are in blue, and anything else out of the ordinary. It is amazing to see the growth of a 25g baby gradually grow up to a 250g baby! It makes you feel like you are really accomplishing something by taking such good care of them.

I personally like to write so mine are all in a Composition book, about 4 pages (front and back) for each beastie. I have run out of pages for Scarlett (my first baby) so I felt like a kid going back to school and bought a 3 ring binder, notebook paper, and plastic dividers with label tabs. I also have a plastic envelope with an index card in it with the snake's name, sex, and what they are eating right now. I have 13 and have been doing counts on who gets fed what in my head and I have miscalculated a few times, this will save me time and worry. I tape the envelope to the viv and it works great.

You only have one (for now - oh yes, it WILL change, no one can have just one beastie!) so the labeling isn't necessary but keeping a journal (there are also websites that you can use as well) will be priceless when you need to recall if they just shed or if they skipped the last meal.

 

[Bullelk]

25g? I'm months away from 25g on both my hatchlings. They gonna get so big!!! Excited

 

[Spencer]

As for Humidity, Switch to a UTH, Under tank heater, I never mist my tanks or worry about humidity. Its a fairly humid country in Japan though. as for feeding, Frozen Thawed only way to go,
As for temp, Same all the time, less worrysome....
As for shed, feed her after shed, right after is okay, My snake shed today, and ate a big meal After. I find that they are usually more hungry as I think it takes a lot of energy to shed.

 

[smigon]

25g? I'm months away from 25g on both my hatchlings. They gonna get so big!!! Excited

How about this? I rescued a corn that is (within months) of my first, Scarlett who weighed in at 25g and 1 year later Scar was about 75g and Bootsie (my new rescue) was over 800g! He actually hit 1000g, I was feeding him large mice weekly but cut it down to 1 every two months and is holding fast at 950g. The previous owners fed him rats weekly which contributed to his fast weight gain. Mice are much better for corns, less fatty and provide the same nutrition in a smaller package.

 

[Bullelk]

1000????? Oh wow that's intense