Newbie- snow corn breeding?

[Clairlevee]

I'm getting a hatchling corn this summer, and I'd really like a snow (or an ultramel lavender, but I'm leaning towards the snow right now)
I've been reading up, but corn snake breeding is pretty confusing to me.
I went to see the breeder, a man who owns a local pet store, and check out his adolescent corns. They looked healthy, but not terribly socialized- (flinching at hands, and he didn't pick them up)
Anyways, he says he hatches 200-300 corns a year o.o
But he couldn't tell me the genetics/colors/patterns of the 2 or 3 snakes he did have. So I worry that I'll end up buying a snake he thinks is a snow, but turns out not to be (The colors change as they age, correct?)

• What parentage determines a snow?
• Is there any way to guarantee a snow hatchling?
• Are there any baby characteristics that might help me distinguish a snow?

Thanks!
I'm a horse person, and really excited to enter the herp world

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

I'm getting a hatchling corn this summer, and I'd really like a snow (or an ultramel lavender, but I'm leaning towards the snow right now)
I've been reading up, but corn snake breeding is pretty confusing to me.
I went to see the breeder, a man who owns a local pet store, and check out his adolescent corns. They looked healthy, but not terribly socialized- (flinching at hands, and he didn't pick them up)
Anyways, he says he hatches 200-300 corns a year o.o
But he couldn't tell me the genetics/colors/patterns of the 2 or 3 snakes he did have. So I worry that I'll end up buying a snake he thinks is a snow, but turns out not to be (The colors change as they age, correct?)

• What parentage determines a snow?
• Is there any way to guarantee a snow hatchling?
• Are there any baby characteristics that might help me distinguish a snow?

Thanks!
I'm a horse person, and really excited to enter the herp world

hi nice to meet you. i hope i can help first id like to say i would never purchase a animal if i didnt trust the person. or felt uncomfortable with my purchase. yes corn snake colors do change over time but it really deepends on the corn snake morph.

so about the percentages snow corns are a combination of Amelanistic and Anerythristic. these are recessive genes that will only become present in the snake if both parents carry the gene.

the snow you want will be pink as a hatching and will turn more white as it ages

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/snow/

here is a great website that will help you to learn more about corn snakes !:bird:

 

[Shiari]

Baby snows are white and super pale pink for the most part.

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/snow/

That website lists most corn snake morphs, and the genetics that go into them. A snow, for example, is homozygous for amelanism (lacking black) and anerythrism (lacking red). This means that each parent must be at least heterozygous for both those traits, so that each parent can give a copy of the mutant gene to the offspring. And that means that two normal looking parents can produce babies that are snows, as well as amels, aneries, and more normals.

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

Baby snows are white and super pale pink for the most part.

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/snow/

That website lists most corn snake morphs, and the genetics that go into them. A snow, for example, is homozygous for amelanism (lacking black) and anerythrism (lacking red). This means that each parent must be at least heterozygous for both those traits, so that each parent can give a copy of the mutant gene to the offspring. And that means that two normal looking parents can produce babies that are snows, as well as amels, aneries, and more normals.

i am helping :uzi: lol just playing

 

[Clairlevee]

Thanks for the quick replies!

i hope i can help first id like to say i would never purchase a animal if i didnt trust the person. or felt uncomfortable with my purchase./QUOTE]

He has good reviews and all, seems reputable, just rather commercial and a little pushy. And I've heard buying a snake from him is better than buying one at petsmart/petco. I really would prefer not to ship one, and I don't know that any shows will be in town when I will be. I just want to make sure I face him armed with plenty of knowledge, so I don't get gypped!

Thank you, I'm writing this stuff down, ha. And thanks for the websites!

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

Thanks for the quick replies!

i hope i can help first id like to say i would never purchase a animal if i didnt trust the person. or felt uncomfortable with my purchase./QUOTE]

He has good reviews and all, seems reputable, just rather commercial and a little pushy. And I've heard buying a snake from him is better than buying one at petsmart/petco. I really would prefer not to ship one, and I don't know that any shows will be in town when I will be. I just want to make sure I face him armed with plenty of knowledge, so I don't get gypped!

Thank you, I'm writing this stuff down, ha. And thanks for the websites!

your welcome and welcome to the world of rat snake its very very addictive i am constantly reading and studying . and this is the best websites ever! everyone is super friendly literally its strange maybe snake owners are just cool.

well dont let him push you around i am dealing with that right now over a snake lol be informed !

hows many color morphs does he offer?
does he claim to catch all of these snakes?

 

[Clairlevee]

Every snake person I've met so far has been extra nice and helpful.

hows many color morphs does he offer?
does he claim to catch all of these snakes?

I don't even know, haha. I was wondering that myself. He gave me the impression that if I wanted it, he'd probably have it. But then again, I only asked about ultramel lavs and snows.

I don't know about catching them! o.o how on earth would you catch that many snakes? I'm happy I'm planning this so far in advance.

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

Every snake person I've met so far has been extra nice and helpful.



I don't even know, haha. I was wondering that myself. He gave me the impression that if I wanted it, he'd probably have it. But then again, I only asked about ultramel lavs and snows.

I don't know about catching them! o.o how on earth would you catch that many snakes? I'm happy I'm planning this so far in advance.

well he would not have caught the colors morphs that would be close to impossible. they cant survive in the wild well and as a result they are even simple morhps are very rare in the wild does he have a website?

 

[bitsy]

I'd really like a snow (or an ultramel lavender, but I'm leaning towards the snow right now)

Be aware that Snow morphs are very common and Ultramel Lavs much less so. There will be a big price difference. Make sure you do some research online to get a handle on pricing so that you're not overcharged for a Snow.

They looked healthy, but not terribly socialized- (flinching at hands, and he didn't pick them up)

Most Corns won't be keen on being picked up (they're usually much calmer once you have them in your hands), so this alone isn't an indicator of trouble. Take a look at the conditions they're kept in - that's probably a better indicator in your situation. Clean tanks (odd bits of poop are inevitable in a large setup, where spot-cleaning has to be a once/twice daily job), fresh water, clean glass on the tanks etc.

Anyways, he says he hatches 200-300 corns a year o.o
But he couldn't tell me the genetics/colors/patterns of the 2 or 3 snakes he did have.

This is what rings a major alarm bell with me. I think you're right to be concerned. It doesn't demonstrate any particular knowledge of Corns.

So I worry that I'll end up buying a snake he thinks is a snow, but turns out not to be (The colors change as they age, correct?)

Snows change rather less than other morphs. It's pretty normal for them to develop a yellow or pale orange "blush" down their necks as they age, but generally they'll stay mostly their original pink/white.

From your description, I'm not sure I'd buy from this person. However, only you can really make that decision. If you can afford to have a Corn shipped to you, there are some very reputable breeders who sell online and whom I would definitely trust to sell me the morph I'd paid for.

 

[dave partington]

Snow is Homozygous Amel (albino) and Anery. Both the Amel and Anery genes are being expressed.
Anery can mean
Anery A
Anery B
Anery Z (Cinder, formerly Ashy)
Caramel (by the definition of Anery)
Some Snows are a combination of more than one kind of Anery
If there are additional Heterozygous genes in the mix, this can affect the visual color of the Snow.
And then there are other Snow Corn Snakes, such as Tequila Sunrise Snows, Coral Snows, Salmon Snows, etc...
There are many options. Personally, I like the green snows.

 

[Shiari]

Actually, dave, anerythrism more accurately describes anery A, charcoal (anery b), caramel, and lavender.

Cinder is more accurately called hypoerythrism, as many animals still develop a red blush. Just look at the peppermints! They certainly aren't 'lacking' red, just have reduced red.

 

[dave partington]

Actually, dave, anerythrism more accurately describes anery A, charcoal (anery b), caramel, and lavender.

Cinder is more accurately called hypoerythrism, as many animals still develop a red blush. Just look at the peppermints! They certainly aren't 'lacking' red, just have reduced red.

It makes one wonder if there's more than one gene in play in the Cinders,
kinda like how Pied is thought to be a part of the original Diffused line. Or how Sunkissed was isolated from a line of Okeetee. Might be worth outcrossing to wild stock with no known hets, to see what comes back in the F2s; such as Cinder lacking the reddish blush, or the reddish blush on Classics, lacking the Cinder. Newish genes are a lot of fun to play with. Not enough people extracting new undiscovered recessive genes from w/c corns.

I have an amel het Peppermint Stripe, it's the reddest amel which does not contain Diffused, redder than strawberry. A very crisp red. Might have to work Charcoal Stripe into that...

 

[Soulwind]

Just my 2 cents, but if a breeder can't tell me the genetics of a non-wild morph that he's breeding (and especially if he's supposedly breeding hundreds of corns a year!), then that's not a breeder I'm interested in buying from.

If you're worried about shipping a snake, they handle it just fine...it will end up costing you an extra 30-40 dollars, but in the long run that's minimal. You will, after all, have the snake for the next 10-20 years or so.