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Nonfeeder incoming - help please!

C

Ceridwen

New member
It appears I will be acquiring a nonfeeder corn hatchling soon.

Another grad student in my dept bred her corns this year (not sure it if was planned or not) and has given away almost all the babies. She also bred her beardies and wound up with FAR more than they expected (all 33 eggs hatched healthy). She has *one* hatchling corn left who has been a non-feeder for the last 3 weeks and no time to deal with it because of the time being spent taking care of the beardie babies, of which they have only been able to find homes for about half so far.

I initially did not want a snake from her because they are not a morph I am looking for (amels or RO's as far as I can tell by talking to her) but when I spoke to her about this hatchling recently I found out they are trying to feed the thing crickets since it will not eat pinks. ARGH!

To this point it has been force fed 1 cricket and 1 pink (after I STRONGLY suggested that pinks would be more appropriate than crickets). I should be getting the snake on Monday and I have a few questions while I prepare.

1) I've got containers ranging from sandwich containers to 8x12" critter keepers that it could be kept in. The house is quite cool (~72-74) so I'd like to have some heating for it. Should I go with the smaller container for it to feel "safer" but be all at one temp (~82?), or the larger one and give it a gradient?

2) It has already refused live and FT pinks. Living in FL I have an unlimited supply of anoles right outside my door. Should I jump right to scenting with those (after freezing to eliminate mites) or try stuff like chicken scenting first?

3) Is there anything else I should know about taking this snake on? This will be my first nonfeeder. Between my boyfriend and I we have 6 other hatchling snakes right now, but all have been relatively easy feeders.
 
Hey

I'm still new at this but we ended up in the same situation that your in. We went to get a Miami from someone and she asked me if i wanted to take the hatchling that had not eaten yet. By day two of having him, I started to get worried.We ended up putting him in a long chinese food container with the lid's center cut out and a washcloth glued in place of it. Then we put the pinky and him in the container, put the lid on, and put it on top of the heating pad in the tank. He ate in no time. i think it took him a whole 15 seconds.Haha. Anywho, dunno if it will work, but good luck~!!:eatpointe
 
Good for you, it's obvious this person probably doesn't know what in the world to do with a nonfeeder (or maybe even a feeder... @_@). All of my advice is pretty obvious stuff, but I think it's pretty much all you need to know.

1. Definately go with the larger one with a temperature gradient. The corn will be much healthier if not happier. You can still make it feel safe by putting in a ton of hides and plants, essentially making it look like a rainforest. I've known people to put hatchlings in 30g tanks and the hatchlings are fine because of all the places they have to hide. Keep the sandwich containers for feeding, though.

2. This depends on the state of the hatchlings. Anoles should be a last resort, so if it doesn't look like it's going to die within the week try mice. Use the normal techniques- playing with it, tuna/chicken senting, warming, slitting, braining, decapitating, feeding in viv, etc.. Then move on to anole scenting, and if that doesn't work, THEN try the anoles. If it looks like it might die within the next 2 weeks, combine methods. ;)

3. You need to be patient with non-feeders. My poor Kel has been skipping feeding inconsistently for 4 months, and it's taxing. Wait for the reward, though, because it's worth it. Also, take notes on EXACTLY what you do each time you feed, so when it does eat, you know how to get it to eat again. Also, you most likely already know this, but leave it alone for the most part. Part of it may be that it is afraid of all the activity going on around it. Oh, and [/b]make sure[/b] it can still defecate. Since it was fed a cricket you'll need to look out for signs of a blackage in the GI tract.
 
When was the snake hatched? Hatchling can go 10-12 weeks from hatching before taking food...and if she was force feeding before this time I wouldn't be surprised if the poor thing has been stressed into not eating.
 
I have one hatchling where I had to resort to force feeding hatchling anoles. But seriously, try everything else first. I've heard quite a few people recommend washing the pink with Ivory soap.
 
Are you coming to the Tampa show at the end of the month? If so, and if the little thing is not eating yet, email me a couple of days before to remind me to bring some deer mouse dirty bedding. Scenting pinks with it seems to get non-feeders going about 25% of the time, so it is worth trying.
 
Thanks for the advice guys.

The snake is at least 1 month old, but I am not sure of exact age. I will ask tomorrow when I get it from her. She lives about an hour from me so she's bringing it to school with her.

I'll get a critter keeper set up and ready for it today so I can get the heating set to the right temp before it arrives. I'm planning to keep it on a bookshelf in a quiet and relatively dark part of the apartment so hopefully it will feel safe there.

I'll keep a look out for any issues defecating and will be keeping track of everything I try to get it feeding.

Kathy, thanks for the offer. I'm not currently planning on going to the Tampa show but I may consider it if I am having trouble getting the little one eating (and would give me an excuse to visit my brother in Sarasota). I'll let you know a couple of days before if it looks like the bedding will be needed.
 
Ceridwen said:
The snake is at least 1 month old, but I am not sure of exact age. I will ask tomorrow when I get it from her. She lives about an hour from me so she's bringing it to school with her.
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The "breeder" is force feeding a snake that is only 4 weeks old? What was she thinking? :nope: No wonder he's not eating.

When you get the snake in, leave it alone for at least a week. Offer him a live pink mouse. If he does not accept it, try a live ASF (I've had great success with ASFs) or deer mouse pink...If you can not get a hold of this species of rodents, just try a live pink mouse again. Wait at least 4 days between offering him meals. At this point (3 weeks not eating), I would try offering him three total live rodent meals before moving onto another method. Ryan wrote a pretty nice (IMO) feeding problems guide.

Being that it's a non-feeder, I would not suggest putting him into a large enclosure where he will need transferred from for feeding. All of my hatchlings are kept in sandwich sized containers at reptile room temperature (80-82) and it does them absolutely no harm. Their is no evidence that a larger size container for a hatchling will create a "healthier and happier" snake, especially when it already is having feeding issues.
 
Some good news:
The snake was not force fed a pink, but rather tease fed (they did not force it's mouth open and shove anything in).

It looks to be a good weight and is quite active, though shy.

It has defecated since the cricket, so it does not appear to be blocked.

The girl I got it from was unwilling to try braining a (dead) pink and had not tried leaving a pink in with it overnight (both of which have worked wonders on my shy spotted python hatchlings). I'm going to give it a week to settle in and give myself time to decide which route to take first. I may do at least one round with a brained FT pink first since those are more easily available to me than live and I'm not concerned that the snake will starve any time soon.
 
Just a note of some wild observstion. Last year after our place was built we came across a hatchling corn gorging itself on hatching crickets that were at the base of our home. Hubby called me out to see it, this is not the first time I have seen it either. So this is not that unusal for corns to do when young.
 
That is AMAZING!

I would not be totally surprised to hear that a baby corn has eaten something really weird, maybe even much more weird than crickets. I think Mother Nature programs at least of few individuals each year to try something new and off beat. Then if conditions have drastically changed (like practically no mice or lizards are available for some reason), then the babies with the weird tastes will at least thrive to carry on the gene pool. At least, that is my personal theory.

But in normal times, a baby that was programmed to want to gorge on crickets constantly probably won't make it, or at least won't grow (or compete with other corns) as well as a mouse feeder. I am not a biologist, but I believe the chitin would be difficult to digest over time, and that the crickets would not be as nutritious as anoles or mice. But who knows what else some wayward baby corn has tried at times - especially considering that some people have luck persuading non-feeders to eat mice scented with tuna or chicken?

Anyway, the reason I am amazed is not because a baby corn has eaten crickets at some point in the wild, but that you were lucky enough to witness it, more than once. Hubby has been an avid field hunter / photographer here in Florida and everywhere else he gets a chance, for more than 35 years, and I don't think he ever got to see a baby corn feed on anything in the wild, even something as mundane as an anole (although he has fed some anoles to wild corns so he could get photos). So consider yourself lucky, and try to keep a camera handy for the next time!

The only thing I would question is that hatchling corns look very similar to a few other hatchling snakes, such as some baby racers and milks. Back when I first started keeping corns, I got them mixed up a few times. If you didn't get a really good look at the baby, it is possible that it could have been misidentified. If you ever see it happen again, please take some photos, and then catch the baby when it is done, and take some good, close up photos. It is always great to photo-document unusual occurrences for posterity!
 
HERE is a list of tricks I have used succesfully to get non-feeders eating. It has worked for me a majority of the time, so far, before I get to the end of the list...
 
Kathy something to think about is location and what is around food wise. Here in Tn anoles just do not exist but we do have skinks, but I would not think a bay would eat those. As I said the nest of crickets was at the base of our home, up agaist the house. I grew up in south FL so have seen many baby wild corns. Here at our new place we already know where the parents live on our property as hubby almost walked into one of them in a tree sunning itself. I found the other still in the ground a foot away. We also have a black rat pair that passes thru that we have seen.

There is a bad side to my store that I left out as I did capture the baby since it was late fall and getting cold. Since house had been treated with a termite treatment I guess crickets had some on it for baby did not survive the night. It had a ballon bulge which I am gathering is from the chemical. We are keeping a close eye out this year to prevent that from happening again. But with the rains we have had here I do not think it is a problem.

I am sure we must have small rodents around here as we have lots of pasture and woods. At least voles and probably field mice.

BTW we do have the pic of the snake in the tree but you can barly see it since hubby did not want to get too close.
 
akewa said:
The snake was not force fed a pink
Click to expand...

That's GREAT to hear! :) I think trying a brained f/t is a good first choice.

akewa said:
As I said the nest of crickets was at the base of our home, up agaist the house.
Click to expand...

Nest of crickets? :confused:
I've got some MASSIVE crickets in my yard that are as big as pink mice, but they don't hang out together or anything. And hatchling crickets are tini, tiny...Small enough to feed the smallest of dart frogs, but that's about it?
 
Thought you all might like to know I succeeded in getting it to eat tonight. After no success getting it to touch a brained FT pink Friday night I offered it a pink through tease feeding tonight and it took it. As soon as it bit in it immediately recognized the food and worked it's way around to the head no problem. I used the smallest pink I had (1.6g) and it had no problem getting it down.

It's clearly a very timid hatchling, so I've got the container covered with a t-shirt to help make it feel secure. As long as it doesn't regurge I think there's a good chance I will have it eating regularly soon. Once it latched on to the pink it had a very good feeding response.
 
Two tease feedings and a shed later and the little amel ate on its own last night!

Here he is sticking his tongue out at me.
P1000567.jpg
 
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