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"normal" motley
- Thread starter Elaphe_Mo
- Start date
Elaphe_Mo
New member
This guy is from a separate clutch but shares a father with the butter you got from me, so that butter is 50% possible het for motley.
I don't have a whole lot of motleys and was wondering how common that "blockyness" of pattern is, all the rest of mine have pretty smooth curves on their patterns. I have my suspicions but I'd like some other opinions on it...
I don't have a whole lot of motleys and was wondering how common that "blockyness" of pattern is, all the rest of mine have pretty smooth curves on their patterns. I have my suspicions but I'd like some other opinions on it...
Śiva
New member
I own the father and mother of "Flood" and i had no clue either were het for motley LOL I think that the head pattern comes from the dad. His head pattern fades just like that but isn't that visible becasue his head has a gray wash kind of like a bloodred but i don't know where it comes from.
Theh Blockiness could maybe hint at one or both of the parents carrying aztec? Who knows?
Drizzt_19: let me know what that butter turns out being (Male or Female) and how it comes along. These were my first two clutches and i had to give them up so i just want to know how they fare
Theh Blockiness could maybe hint at one or both of the parents carrying aztec? Who knows?
Drizzt_19: let me know what that butter turns out being (Male or Female) and how it comes along. These were my first two clutches and i had to give them up so i just want to know how they fare
Colonel SB
MMMMM Snakes
Wow he looks great
Śiva
New member
If one parent is het motley and the other het stripe that complicates matters LOL I'm going to breed the mother to a sunglow motley next year so we'll see what happens. If i get all normal looking motleys that means she's het for motley not stripe right? What if both parents are het for motley stripe? and not just either one? This is turning into a genetic mess LOL but it's still fun
Elaphe_Mo
New member
Siva,
you can't be het for motley-stripe. As far as I understand it, motley and stripe are both alleles of one gene, so the only way you get real motley-stripes is to have the motley part from one parent, and the stripe from the other. If both of Flood's parents are normal patterned, then they can each only be carrying motley or stripe, not both. Also from what I've seen in some photos, somtimes breeding a motley to a stripe creates offspring that look just like regular motleys. It's all a mess, but at least not as bad in my opinion as the bloodred mess!
Most of the motley-looking siblings of Flood look completely like regular motleys, but since both parents are normal patterned, if Flood proves to be motley-stripe, then so are his siblings.
In any case I'd like some other opinions on whether there is a definite way to tell a motley from a motley stripe.
you can't be het for motley-stripe. As far as I understand it, motley and stripe are both alleles of one gene, so the only way you get real motley-stripes is to have the motley part from one parent, and the stripe from the other. If both of Flood's parents are normal patterned, then they can each only be carrying motley or stripe, not both. Also from what I've seen in some photos, somtimes breeding a motley to a stripe creates offspring that look just like regular motleys. It's all a mess, but at least not as bad in my opinion as the bloodred mess!
Most of the motley-looking siblings of Flood look completely like regular motleys, but since both parents are normal patterned, if Flood proves to be motley-stripe, then so are his siblings.
In any case I'd like some other opinions on whether there is a definite way to tell a motley from a motley stripe.
Śiva
New member
You can tell stripes apart really easily from motley stripe and motleys. If a motley stripe comes out lokking completely striped there should be some differences. I think the striped snake's stripe will be thinner than that of the stripe motley. However i do not know how-other than breeding trials- you would tell the difference from a motley compared to a motley stripe with plain motley patterns. It is a mess but i agree that the bloodred deal is an even bigger one. LOL and one of the snakes i ordered from SMR is a Pewter LOL And i'm going to breed her to a hypo motley Where did all these genes come from!? LOL it's what keeps us all interested though so that's a good thing.. and bad because it fuels our addiction. so i guess it is just going to be a problem of feeding our addiction
so i guess it is just going to be a problem of feeding our addiction
Elaphe_Mo
New member
yeah stripes and motley-stripes are pretty easy to tell apart even when the motley-stripes are fully striped. (What a confusing sentance.)
I know there's someone who posted recently some motley-striped babies that looked just like normal motleys. I was wondering if there is anything about them that sets them apart from regular motleys.
Another thing that would help would be to know how common it is for true homozygous motleys to have that aztec-iness to them.
I know there's someone who posted recently some motley-striped babies that looked just like normal motleys. I was wondering if there is anything about them that sets them apart from regular motleys.
Another thing that would help would be to know how common it is for true homozygous motleys to have that aztec-iness to them.
Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
Part of the problem with the whole question about motley vs. motley/stripe vs. striped animals is that there are some motlies out there that are misrepresented as motley stripes, and some stripes which are actually motley striped animals. Confused????
Well, in order for an animal to truly be a stripe, it has to have the stripes arranged in such a way as to have the uppermost center portion of ground pattern being wider than the other ground patterns between the dorsal stripes. Here is an example posted originally by Walter Smith of his lavender striped baby:
However, the motley/stripe animal can look very much like a full stripe. The key is that the center ground color portion is far more narrow. Here is a picture origianlly posted by Ken (Kenster) of his snow motley/stripe:
You can see the difference between these two patterns, when they are side by side, but many people miss the distinction if they have only one animal.
So, a person actually has a motley/stripe, but breeds it to a stripe. The babies will either be stripes or stripe/motlies. However, again because of the lack of understanding about what makes a stripe unique from a motley/stripe, the confusion continues and no one knows for sure what is what. The same thing can happen if the original snake is bred to a motley. The resulting hatchling will come out as motlies and motley/stripes. Where did the motlies come from? Well, it's easy to see once you know what you have.
Motley and Stripe are both genes found on the DNA strand at the same locus (location). Each locus has two alleles (genes) which can be the same (homozygous) or different (heterozygous). Since the motley and stripe genes are found on the same locus, there are some unique aspects about how these genes work. An animal that is het for motley has one normal gene and one motley gene at the prescribed locus. An animal that is motley has two motley genes there. An animal that is het for stripe has one normal gene and one stripe gene, and a striped animal has two stripe genes. A motley/stripe has one motley gene and one stripe gene at that same locus. So, a motley/stripe is an animal that is double het for motley and stripe. However, since they are located on the same allele, the pattern mutations show through because there is no normal gene present. Further, the motley and stripe gene appear to be co-dominant to one another. This means that an animal with both genes will show some effect from both pattern mutations to one degree or another. It may only that narrowing of the center ground color strip, but it is an effect nonetheless.
I'm sure that's all as clear as mud, but that's the way I understand it. Hope it helps some!
Well, in order for an animal to truly be a stripe, it has to have the stripes arranged in such a way as to have the uppermost center portion of ground pattern being wider than the other ground patterns between the dorsal stripes. Here is an example posted originally by Walter Smith of his lavender striped baby:
However, the motley/stripe animal can look very much like a full stripe. The key is that the center ground color portion is far more narrow. Here is a picture origianlly posted by Ken (Kenster) of his snow motley/stripe:
You can see the difference between these two patterns, when they are side by side, but many people miss the distinction if they have only one animal.
So, a person actually has a motley/stripe, but breeds it to a stripe. The babies will either be stripes or stripe/motlies. However, again because of the lack of understanding about what makes a stripe unique from a motley/stripe, the confusion continues and no one knows for sure what is what. The same thing can happen if the original snake is bred to a motley. The resulting hatchling will come out as motlies and motley/stripes. Where did the motlies come from? Well, it's easy to see once you know what you have.
Motley and Stripe are both genes found on the DNA strand at the same locus (location). Each locus has two alleles (genes) which can be the same (homozygous) or different (heterozygous). Since the motley and stripe genes are found on the same locus, there are some unique aspects about how these genes work. An animal that is het for motley has one normal gene and one motley gene at the prescribed locus. An animal that is motley has two motley genes there. An animal that is het for stripe has one normal gene and one stripe gene, and a striped animal has two stripe genes. A motley/stripe has one motley gene and one stripe gene at that same locus. So, a motley/stripe is an animal that is double het for motley and stripe. However, since they are located on the same allele, the pattern mutations show through because there is no normal gene present. Further, the motley and stripe gene appear to be co-dominant to one another. This means that an animal with both genes will show some effect from both pattern mutations to one degree or another. It may only that narrowing of the center ground color strip, but it is an effect nonetheless.
I'm sure that's all as clear as mud, but that's the way I understand it. Hope it helps some!
Elaphe_Mo
New member
Thanks Darin
I love genetics, I almost majored in it as an undergrad, so thinking about these things is fun for me! I've always figured motley and stripe to be co-dominant, the frustrating thing is sometimes one seems "more dominant" than the other, giving motley-stripes that are fully striped, or that look just like motleys. The striped ones are definitely easy to tell from regular stripes once you know what to look for, but the motley looking ones give me a headache. I think I'm ready to start working with Serpwidgets to develop the do-it-yourself home testing kit for cornsnake genetics. Everything you need for PCR, electrophoresis, you name it, in one handy pocket-sized gadget. LOL
I love genetics, I almost majored in it as an undergrad, so thinking about these things is fun for me! I've always figured motley and stripe to be co-dominant, the frustrating thing is sometimes one seems "more dominant" than the other, giving motley-stripes that are fully striped, or that look just like motleys. The striped ones are definitely easy to tell from regular stripes once you know what to look for, but the motley looking ones give me a headache. I think I'm ready to start working with Serpwidgets to develop the do-it-yourself home testing kit for cornsnake genetics. Everything you need for PCR, electrophoresis, you name it, in one handy pocket-sized gadget. LOL