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Palmetto questions

J

Jenn-675

New member
So I just received a beautiful palmetto girl and have done some research into the palmettos, but I am still left with a few questions.

A) Is the coloration completely random? If the parents have few colored speckles will the offspring have few as well? And if they, the parents, have large spots of color will the offspring have a more likely chance for these spots as well?

B) I remember reading on here about the metabolic rate of palmettos seeming higher then other corns. Has this been determined yet to be true?

C) I know that there must be a picture of the first palmetto, where might I find it?

If I can figure it out I will try to get a picture of my girl up.
 
Why are ALL het Palmettos "tan"

Is Palmetto co-dominant and visible as "Het"?

This is a simple genetic question, with a simple test breeding to answer this basic question about Palmetto.

Who has done to breeding to answer this question?

Where is the proof?

It is very easy to say that the "tan" offspring from Palmettos' is the result of a co-dominant gene, but breeding a Palmetto x any Corn and producing "tan" offspring is no proof at all.

It is also proof of a hybrid. Or hybrid marker with a Yellow Jacket gene expressed.

Who has bred Het Palmetto x Normal, or any other morph?

Who has bred Het Palmetto x Het Palmetto?

Photos of results would be SWEET!
 
The "palmetto" gene is said to be a type of leucism. That they would produce "tan" offspring is interesting (wellto me :grin01:), as "Rusty" black rats are the visual "morph" for leucistic black rats, (the Texas rat line of leucistic acts as a recessive) Maybe there's a link between leucistic colubrids and visual hets. And you know nobody's breeding Palmetto's to normals, but het to het breedings are surely going on enough that you'd see pictures.
 
I've read some interesting articles about the Palmetto, one by Travis Whisler, and one by Don Soderberg. I was interested in the large eyes found on some Palmettos, and was wondering if it had anything to do with the leucistic morph. Do an internet search and you should find the articles, and they may answer some of your questions.
 
All really great questions Jenn - I'm really interested to see answers from those who know.

I find them interesting but looking about all the same. However that is a response to my limited and not extensive research and monitoring of threads. And, it may just be me, but in my past experience with rat snakes, these are a little reminiscent of those and I try to shy away from that a bit as my desire is to focus on quality Corns.

Just my 2 cents. I'm looking forward to hearing the answer to Jenn's and Joe's questions.

-Tonya

Jenn-675 said:
So I just received a beautiful palmetto girl and have done some research into the palmettos, but I am still left with a few questions.

A) Is the coloration completely random? If the parents have few colored speckles will the offspring have few as well? And if they, the parents, have large spots of color will the offspring have a more likely chance for these spots as well?

B) I remember reading on here about the metabolic rate of palmettos seeming higher then other corns. Has this been determined yet to be true?

C) I know that there must be a picture of the first palmetto, where might I find it?

If I can figure it out I will try to get a picture of my girl up.
Click to expand...
 
ecreipeoj said:
Is Palmetto co-dominant and visible as "Het"?

This is a simple genetic question, with a simple test breeding to answer this basic question about Palmetto.

Who has done to breeding to answer this question?

Where is the proof?

It is very easy to say that the "tan" offspring from Palmettos' is the result of a co-dominant gene, but breeding a Palmetto x any Corn and producing "tan" offspring is no proof at all.

It is also proof of a hybrid. Or hybrid marker with a Yellow Jacket gene expressed.

Who has bred Het Palmetto x Normal, or any other morph?

Who has bred Het Palmetto x Het Palmetto?

Photos of results would be SWEET!
Click to expand...
Will Het Palmetto x Het Palmetto breedings prove if the Palmetto gene is visible as het?

What about Het Palmetto x Any Corn Snake?

There may be other factors to consider. How did a recessive gene such as Palmetto with "No visible Hybrid Markers", become a co-dominant gene that is visible as het all of these years later? This sounds like Boa and Python Genetics.

If Palmetto was a Yellow Rat Snake, instead of a Corn Snake and you bred it to a Corn Snake, it would produce Het Borderless Yellow Jacket offspring, het for Palmetto, just like all of the photos of het Palmettos you have seen.

The Borderless gene and Yellow Jacket Gene I have seen in our Corns is a dominant gene. They are both actually co-dominant, because they can easily be seen as het, but stand out when homozygous.

If you bred a Yellow Rat Snake x Okeetee you will produce the same phenotype as het Palmettos, because they are het for YJ and Borderless. If you raised up the females from this cross and bred them back to the Yellow Rat Snake, you will produce many Homo YJ Borderless offspring. The entire line is now homozygous for two dominant genes, borrowed from the Yellow Rat Snake.

How many times have you seen a Borderless Corn listed as a Normal? When did Borderless first come on the scene? Amel, Anery, Hypo Boarder-less, Boarder-less has been a Normal Phenotype in our Corns for a very long time. Hypo Okeetees exist, so Hypo does not remove the border from Corns, it is another gene, called Boarder-less.

If Palmetto is a Corn Snake and you bred it to a Het or Homo YJ Boarderless Corn, you would also produce the current phenotype of Het Palmettos. So which is it?

Possible test that could prove this out without DNA Tess are:
Original Palmetto x Okeetee

Original Palmetto x Yellow Rat Snake.

I personally believe the Border-less Gene and Yellow Jacket Genes are Rat Snake Genes, and like a Yellow Jacket, they can come back to bite you, when claiming that "No Hybrid Markers" exist in a line.
 
Joe that was a good post and I have been looking into parts of it more. I hope to get a male palmetto this year and will try to breed him to a female okeetee in a few years. As for my original question about the metabolism being higher in palmettos I want to say yes. I have never done a true test for metabolic rates, but I have done a few feeding experiments. I will feed a same size food item (weight the same) to my palmetto girl and then to two of my other corn girls who are around the same age. Within two days, in most cases I can no longer see the bump where the food was and she is very active; in my other two it is still visible and they are still digesting.
 
ecreipeoj said:
Will Het Palmetto x Het Palmetto breedings prove if the Palmetto gene is visible as het?

What about Het Palmetto x Any Corn Snake?
Click to expand...

I think the more we start to see corns homozygous for other mutations and het Palmetto, the more we're going to see the hypo-like effect it has.

Here is a 2018 male Lavender het Palmetto. I'm still waiting to see if it is proven homozygous Hypo, but honestly I don't think it is. (e) It was listed as Lavender, but could be Plasma or at least Masque maybe?

ZLytw4Oh.png
 
ecreipeoj said:
Why are ALL het Palmettos "tan"

Is Palmetto co-dominant and visible as "Het"?

This is a simple genetic question, with a simple test breeding to answer this basic question about Palmetto.

Who has done to breeding to answer this question?

Where is the proof?

It is very easy to say that the "tan" offspring from Palmettos' is the result of a co-dominant gene, but breeding a Palmetto x any Corn and producing "tan" offspring is no proof at all.

It is also proof of a hybrid. Or hybrid marker with a Yellow Jacket gene expressed.

Who has bred Het Palmetto x Normal, or any other morph?

Who has bred Het Palmetto x Het Palmetto?

Photos of results would be SWEET!
Click to expand...
Why Are Het Palmettos "Tan"?

The tan colouration in all the Palmettos suggests a possible co-dominant trait, but this isn’t confirmed. Some believe it’s a sign of the Palmetto gene partially expressing itself. However, just breeding Palmetto x any Corn and getting tan offspring isn’t solid proof—it could even indicate a hybrid or a different genetic marker, like the Yellow Jacket gene.

To truly understand, we need breeders to do more specific pairings, like Het Palmetto x Normal or Het Palmetto x Het Palmetto, and share their results. Photos and records from these breedings would provide the needed evidence. For more information visit this website 👉 https://snakesworld.info/palmetto-corn-snake/.
palmetto-corn-snake.jpg
 
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