Petco Misinformation - Surviving the night

[Ciisea]

I'm a complete idiot and got a baby corn snake from Petco. I would like to mention right now this is not a bash towards Petco employee's in general, just my personal experience with this one store. I gave the benefit of the doubt because the employee helping me seemed very knowledgeable. To an extent she was, but apparently only on a few things. I joined this forum back in 2008 and just now got my beloved corn snake. I'm a first time snake owner, so naturally I'm extremely excited but also overprotective. I did a lot of research those few years back but obviously not enough to know BS regarding corn snake care when I hear it. There were a few moments while talking to her I thought, 'That doesn't sound right...' but shrugged it off.

I feel in love with this one baby who was the most chilled and quite content just hanging out with people. It was obvious I felt a connection, which I honestly didn't even know could happen with a snake even though I've always been fascinated by them. I was then told all the snakes have mites. Sure enough, she showed me the two black dots under his scales. She explained I could take him home and give him treatment with a spray until I could take him to a vet and Petco would pay for the treatment. Well that sounded fair to me, especially considering how strongly I felt for the little one. I asked for help getting everything I would need.

I mentioned how I read they should have smaller enclosures as babies. She said it was best to go the biggest and recommended a 40 gallon breeder or a 20 gallon to start with. Mind you this corn snake is a tiny baby, eating pinkies and probably 10 inches long. I went with the 20 gallon. Reading online I now know that it is better for babies to have smaller because large spaces frighten them. I have two large hides; one on the warm side, one on the cool, and a plant in the middle. Currently I'm using a small plastic container as water/soaking bowl. I was told I would need two heat sources, a UTH and basking light. Well that is apparently wrong as well, which leads me to my biggest concern. The UTH is running way too hot, even though it's the recommend size and the house is at 76 F. I'm currently using paper towels due to the mites and have a probe (despite her recommendation that the stick on kind is just as good) resting on that. It was rising over 97 F so I turned it off. I tried using my spare red light reptile bulb (it's only a 40 watt) but that was getting much too hot as well due to it being summer.

I know UTH are the recommend, so I'm going to need to buy a Thermostat. The problem being what should I do until I can hopefully find one later today? It's 1:40 AM and I'm too concerned to get any sleep. Will he be okay until then? Also, since I'm taking him to the vet as soon as I can get an appointment, do you think I need to use the mite spray?

:uhoh:

 

[wretchedprocess]

I don't know about the mite spray, so hopefully someone else can help you. But the snake should be okay at 76 through the night, though not perhaps ideally comfortable. If you're running a/c, you could turn it down a little, but if not, you don't really need to worry too much. Remember, 76 degrees at night is quite a normal temperature in corn snakes' natural environment. So since you know you're going to fix it soon, feel free to relax for the moment. Your baby will be fine.

It is perfectly possible to have a happy little snake in a 20g aquarium, by the way, so long as you provide it with a lot of places to hide. My hatchling-sized yearling seems to be quite comfortable in his 20g with two hides, a piece of driftwood, and an artificial vine. He LOVES the vine, and while he sleeps the day in one of the hides pretty often, he's out on the vine all night every night, except when he's digesting. (And most of the time, even then!)

I know I'm a little late answering this, and hopefully you've already managed to sleep. But whether you have or not, good luck with your new baby! Be sure to post pictures!

 

[Sweetseraph]

As wretchprocess has said, yup, he'll be fine at 76 for a bit, especially since he hasn't eaten. And, yes, just fill his 20 g with lots of places to hide and lots of plants and such and he'll be fine.

As far as regulating the UTH, just go to Home Depot/Walmart, etc. and look for a lamp dimmer. You just plug the UTH into it and use the slider to control the temperature. You can still look into a thermostat if you like, but the lamp dimmer will be cheap ($10-15) and easy to find asap.

What is the mite spray called that they gave you? I haven't had to deal with them, but I think the most common stuff used here is Sevin dust.

 

[cornsnakeforsale_com]

For the dimmer, get the one that has it inline (vs a component you have to wire). You just plug your heater into that and adjust the temp.

 

[twmedford23]

There's nothing wrong with a large enclosure just so long as there are plenty of hiding places. As long as your snake feels secure, that's all that matters.

FYI, large hides aren't best for snakes, much less babies. Tight, cramped spaces are best to help him feel completely safe. A hide isn't much of a hide if this can't be achieved.

Heat lamps are usually recommended with an under tank heater for supplemental heat. Both aren't always necessary if ambient temps are in the mid 70's.

Most on here will tell you that under tank heaters are best because corn snakes don't bask, but IMO, heat lamps work just as well and as long as you use the appropriate bulb to achieve desired temps. My issue with undertank heaters is that once they are applied, they are impossible to remove which makes cleaning difficult. And they almost always have to be used with a thermostat which will cost you more money(which I believe is what manufacturers are counting on). $20-$40 for a heating pad and then an additional $20-$40 for a good thermostat OR $10 for a clamp light fixture from Walmart then a couple of dollars for regular bulbs and about $6 for TWO 65 watt black light bulbs. I'm sure most will disagree with me but I really think you'll be fine just using a heat lamp.

Your snake should NOT have mites. If Petco is doing what they're supposed to, mites shouldn't exist. If they actually pay for the vet's visit, then that's fair. Still, Petco is extremely irresponsible if ANY of their animals have mites. If you plan on keeping the snake, give him a long soak in lukewarm water with just a splash of dish soap. Read the directions on the mite spray well. You should be able to get rid of them without the vet visit. Still, this responsibility shouldn't be placed on you. But that's Petco, I guess...

 

[Shiari]

Making it impossible to clean? How often does the underside of the bottom of your tanks get dirty?

And you're right, I'm going to disagree. An *ambient* temperature of 85 degrees is a far cry from a belly temperature of 85 degrees. Corns do not need ambient temperatures that high.

 

[twmedford23]

I didn't say "impossible", I said "difficult". I usually take my tanks outside and clean them out thoroughly with the hose. When I have to disinfect them, I want to make sure they are rinsed out well. Sometimes the hose happens to get EVERYTHING wet.

If you prefer under tank heaters, that's fine. I simply prefer heat lamps. For me, they're more cost efficient and are safer. To each his own, right?.

 

[Ciisea]

Thank you for the replies and help everyone.
Sorry I'm responding so late. I was eventually able to get some sleep after posting. That morning I stopped by Home Depot and picked up dimmer; it's working wonderfully. This baby does seem to be having some trouble feeling comfortable and confident in the large 20 gallon.

Today was vet day. I recognized her name, she is well known and recommended for exotics. Her knowledge was very impressive, so that was good. I was concerned Petco would send me to some cheap idiot. She couldn't see any mites, but they are likely still there. So baby corn got a shot of Ivermectin and will be getting a second one in two weeks. I used a decent sized critter keeper as a traveling enclosure. The vet recommended keeping the baby in that until the mites clear up and I know he/she is doing well (eating, growing, etc). So that's what I'm going to go ahead and do. The vet advised just using a human heating mat under half of the critter keeper with the dimmer. The baby corn seems very content now in the smaller space.

My corn weighs 5 grams; tiny baby. The vet also mentioned it being thin, so I may try feeding a thawed pinkie tonight, if not then definitely tomorrow. I'm glad Petco is losing money on paying for my babies vet care, he obviously hasn't been cared for properly by them. I need to find a good unisex name. The vet didn't feel comfortable sexing such a young snake (understandable) so I wont be knowing gender until quite a while.

I think that is pretty much all of the update.
Hopefully the little one will eat a good meal, get some food in that skinny belly.

 

[cotner]

I didn't say "impossible", I said "difficult". I usually take my tanks outside and clean them out thoroughly with the hose. When I have to disinfect them, I want to make sure they are rinsed out well. Sometimes the hose happens to get EVERYTHING wet.

If you prefer under tank heaters, that's fine. I simply prefer heat lamps. For me, they're more cost efficient and are safer. To each his own, right?.

to each his own? WRONG. It's a living animal and like someone already said on here it needs belly heat not a basking temp. Ambient temperature is important but it is more important for the UTH to be at a proper temp because the snake will NEED proper belly heat for digestion. So not to each there own, if someone cannot handle using a UTH, they should not be raising a corn snake because they are not doing it properly. and as far as cost efficient? a UTH is cheaper on electricity than a lamp by far and you dont have to replace bulbs. You can get a lamp dimmer from homendepot for 10$ and plug your UTH into that and adjust it to the proper temp. Please dont use shortcuts to get by, do it properly. Congrats on the new snake! hope the mite problem clears!

 

[luckycharm318]

to each his own? WRONG. It's a living animal and like someone already said on here it needs belly heat not a basking temp. Ambient temperature is important but it is more important for the UTH to be at a proper temp because the snake will NEED proper belly heat for digestion. So not to each there own, if someone cannot handle using a UTH, they should not be raising a corn snake because they are not doing it properly. and as far as cost efficient? a UTH is cheaper on electricity than a lamp by far and you dont have to replace bulbs. You can get a lamp dimmer from homendepot for 10$ and plug your UTH into that and adjust it to the proper temp. Please dont use shortcuts to get by, do it properly. Congrats on the new snake! hope the mite problem clears!

You know, it is possible to make a point without an attitude.
Also, I'm quite sure wild corns find exactly 85 degree belly heat whenever they are digesting a meal. /sarcasm

Belly heat between 80-85 degrees is optimal and what you should provide for your corn snakes. However, it is possible for them to digest without belly heat. My ex has had his corn for several years, and I am not a fan of his husbandry (UTH on the side of the tank- unregulated, one hide on the warm side, sand for substrate, feeds live, and no way to monitor the temperature.) but she has done well, and hasn't had any regurges or problems, other than the occasional bad shed, that I know of. I've tried to share reasons he should change the way he keeps her but, his belief is: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If someone hasn't encountered any problems with the way they do things, they are unlikely to change just because you, and possibly many other people say that they should. People are even less likely to change if you are less than polite when presenting reasons as to why they should change.

 

[wretchedprocess]

to each his own? WRONG. It's a living animal and like someone already said on here it needs belly heat not a basking temp. Ambient temperature is important but it is more important for the UTH to be at a proper temp because the snake will NEED proper belly heat for digestion. So not to each there own, if someone cannot handle using a UTH, they should not be raising a corn snake because they are not doing it properly.

While I certainly agree that the use of a UTH is preferable, I must step in and add that you may be slightly overstating just how imperative it is. I am aware of collections of reptiles, including corn snakes, in which UTH's are not used at all, but the room temperature is kept within the appropriate range. And the snakes in question have not died, nor do they regurge with any greater frequency than snakes kept with a UTH. Again, it is certainly superior and much better for the snake's comfort to have a temperature gradient provided by a UTH. But heat tape along the backs of racks, for example, doesn't provide belly heat as such, and can also be used without effectively. I'm not trying to make trouble here, but since this thread was started by someone looking for basic advice, I do want to emphasize that corn snakes are hardy creatures, and while certain things may be optimal, you won't necessarily kill your snake if you cannot immediately meet quite all of these demands.

 

[cotner]

ok, i wasnt trying to be snobby or anything on here, that was definitely not my objective at all. I just get really bothered when people try to take shortcuts when raising pets, they may get by* but it isn't ideal. Corn snakes are hardy indead but they still need to be cared for properly, thats all i meant by it. Glad to hear the the vet trip went well! good luck with the little guy!

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Thank you for the replies and help everyone.
Sorry I'm responding so late. I was eventually able to get some sleep after posting. That morning I stopped by Home Depot and picked up dimmer; it's working wonderfully. This baby does seem to be having some trouble feeling comfortable and confident in the large 20 gallon.

Today was vet day. I recognized her name, she is well known and recommended for exotics. Her knowledge was very impressive, so that was good. I was concerned Petco would send me to some cheap idiot. She couldn't see any mites, but they are likely still there. So baby corn got a shot of Ivermectin and will be getting a second one in two weeks. I used a decent sized critter keeper as a traveling enclosure. The vet recommended keeping the baby in that until the mites clear up and I know he/she is doing well (eating, growing, etc). So that's what I'm going to go ahead and do. The vet advised just using a human heating mat under half of the critter keeper with the dimmer. The baby corn seems very content now in the smaller space.

My corn weighs 5 grams; tiny baby. The vet also mentioned it being thin, so I may try feeding a thawed pinkie tonight, if not then definitely tomorrow. I'm glad Petco is losing money on paying for my babies vet care, he obviously hasn't been cared for properly by them. I need to find a good unisex name. The vet didn't feel comfortable sexing such a young snake (understandable) so I wont be knowing gender until quite a while.

I think that is pretty much all of the update.
Hopefully the little one will eat a good meal, get some food in that skinny belly.

Eek! Human heating pad? I would dearly advise against it!!! Those are meant to feel warm to us (with our 98 degree bodies), on a corn (who needs a body temp between 80 and 85 degrees) they'd be scalding, like sitting on the stove!

 

[windowswisher]

This baby does seem to be having some trouble feeling comfortable and confident in the large 20 gallon.

I will go ahead and say that some hatchlings do much better in a smaller viv. While friends' cornsnakes are out cruisin' confidenally at a small size, Basil was much more shy and preferred to remain hidden away ALL of the time (literally never saw her out for 3-4 months) in her 20g. When I moved her to a smaller Tupperware type container she flourished, felt a lot more confident to come out and explore her surroundings.

 

[luckycharm318]

... So that's what I'm going to go ahead and do. The vet advised just using a human heating mat under half of the critter keeper with the dimmer. The baby corn seems very content now in the smaller space.

...

Eek! Human heating pad? I would dearly advise against it!!! Those are meant to feel warm to us (with our 98 degree bodies), on a corn (who needs a body temp between 80 and 85 degrees) they'd be scalding, like sitting on the stove!

I think she's got it under control here. The human heating pad with the dimmer was probably suggested so she wouldn't have to detach her UTH from the 20 gal. tank, or go buy another one.

 

[bitsy]

Trouble is that human heating pads aren't designed to go below human body temp - otherwise they'd feel cool to us and wouldn't keep us warm. I'm not sure that a dimmer switch will help - it might switch the pad down to its minimum setting (still above 90 degrees) or off, neither of which will be very helpful.

However, I would also echo the post above - Corns are pretty hardy and there really are no set-in-stone rules about heat sources. Plenty of people here use overhead heat sources or ambient room temps with no gradient and they manage to maintain healthy animals which breed successfully. However, the correct reptile kit is always preferable. Must admit that I've opted for reptile UTH + thermostat setups and they do work very well for me.

If a youngster isn't looking comfortable in a larger tank, then a quick fix is to just get as many cheap, makeshift hides in there as possible. Toilet roll tubes cut in half lengthwise are perfect for a hatchling. Even scrunched up newspaper will be good for burrowing - although there's plenty of scope for "losing" the babe in it and having a heart attack thinking they've escaped when they haven't!

Ironically, the more hides they have, the more confident they'll be to move around the tank, so the more you might see them out and about.

 

[Sweetseraph]

The main problem with human heating pads is that they are not designed to stay on 24-7 and can become a fire hazard if used that way. What if the smaller container was placed inside the larger viv in such a way that it sat 1/3 on the heating pad? You may need to up the temp of the UTH a bit in order for the temp in the smaller container to be 80-85.

 

[cotner]

I was at petco yesterday and they had a special UTH made for hermit crab containers, so basically it was the same as a regular UTH but small enough for a critter keeper and was significantly cheaper, i think it was like 8 bucks or somethin instead of the small zoo med version for $17. Maybe that would be worth a shot? Although im not sure what the temperature rating on it was.

 

[wstphal]

You would have to check the temperature with that little UTH but I bet it would work on a lamp dimmer just fine! And for $8, while your little baby is living in a critter keeper, it should do, then when you upgrade your baby when she is bigger, you will have an empty, heated critter keeper for the next snake! LOL>

 

[twmedford23]

I don't think I've found a single care sheet yet that specifically advises against heat lamps. Here's just one example from kingsnake.com, written by Peter Spiess: http://www.kingsnake.com/rockymountain/RMHPages/RMHnewpage11.htm

"Appropriate Heating

There are several choices for appropriate corn snake heating. Whatever choice of heating is used, it is very important to provide one area of the cage where the ambient (air) temperature is 80-85 degrees F. Corn snakes, like all reptiles, do not make their own body heat and rely on a behavioral mechanism called thermoregualtion to regulate their body temperature. Thermoregulation means that when a reptile is too cool, it moves to an area to warm itself, and when it is too hot, it moves to a cooler area. Access to warm areas are critically important to the health of your snake. Appropriate heating is required for proper digestion and the effective functioning of the immune system.

If the tank has a screen top, a shop light or metal reflector may be placed on top of the cage, to one side, with a heating bulb inside to create a basking area of 80-85 degrees F. Another method of heating is the use of quality undertank heating pads. Undertank heaters are plastic with one adhesive side. The adhesive side of the heater is used to attach it to the bottom of the outside of the tank, on one side of the cage. These heaters can only be used with certain types of cages, so check the directions before purchase. Hot rocks are not recommended for corn snake heating for several reasons."

I can post excerpts from caresheets all day long saying that heat lamps are perfectly acceptable as heating sources for corn snakes. EVERY rat, corn or king/milk snake book that I own also recommend heat lamps, just as well as under tank heaters. I would understand some of the venom being thrown at me if these same book/caresheets advise AGAINST heat lamps but they don't. So yeah, I still believe it comes down to preference. If the corn snake has a way to warm itself, why does it matter how it is achieved?

What's interesting is none of you would recommend heat rocks, and IMO rightly so. However, what would be the harm if they are used with a dimmer or thermostat? If it's okay for undertank heaters, why not for heat rocks?

And just to set the record straight, I do use undertank heaters for some of my snakes, including my amel corn snake and ball python, only because my house stays on the cool side because of the AC. But as I mentioned earlier, I don't believe both are necessary in most situations and if I would have to recommend one over the other, I will recommend lamps.