Please Help in ID

[Crofab]

I was recently given these 3 corns. My wife and I are fairly new to cornsnake morphs. We were given a reverse trip. 1 is a female candcane, other is a male unknown (looks like some other kind of rat snake-it has a odd shaped head compared to my other corns, and the 3rd is a male that is offspring. We are not quite sure what to call him either. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. I plan on bulking up the female before next breeding season, and i want to make sure to correctly label any off spring so people know what they are getting. Thank you

 

[CornCrazy]

Are the first 2 pics of the same snake? If so, it looks like a normal cubed striped corn to me. The last snake looks like a normal corn. The amel one probably could be considered a candy cane. The thing with candy canes is that they are simply a selectively bred amel. If you breed her, you may or may not get candy cane looking animals.

 

[Joejr14]

1) Normal
2) Amel (average candy-cane)
3) Normal

Does #1 have a plain or checkered belly?

 

[princess]

The one in the first 2 pics looks just like one that I bought originally as a normal but have identifed since as an outcrossed bloodred. What does the belly look like? Does it have normal checkering or does it have faded checks with a 'clear' stripe up the middle?

 

[Crofab]

The first 2 pics are of the same snake(he is the father to the last snake pictured), Here is a shot of the belly, it is faded-and also opaque. He is also the father to the snake in the last picture. The candycane is the mother

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

1: outcrossed bloodred
2: amel
3: normal

 

[princess]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/adelevn/Norman.jpg Have a look at that pic...you'll see yours looks much like mine which is an outcrossed bloodred...the other two are a 'candy cane type' amel and a normal...technically the last one is also somewhat an outcrossed bloodred but I wouldn't sell him as that as the diffusion gene is quite diluted!

 

[Joejr14]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/adelevn/Norman.jpg Have a look at that pic...you'll see yours looks much like mine which is an outcrossed bloodred...the other two are a 'candy cane type' amel and a normal...technically the last one is also somewhat an outcrossed bloodred but I wouldn't sell him as that as the diffusion gene is quite diluted!

Het 'Bloodred' x Amel =

50% normals het amel, 'bloodred'
50% normals het amel

If you want to call it 'diffusion', either way it's the same. A gene cannot become diluted. It's either there (one or two) or not there.

Not sure what everyone's definition of an 'outcrossed bloodred' is, but to mean it means the offspring from a bloodred x non-bloodred, ie a het bloodred.

 

[mbdorfer]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some obsoleta influence in those snakes.
Something about the head in pic 1 just calls out to me :shrugs:
Either way they are cool looking

 

[Joejr14]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some obsoleta influence in those snakes.
Something about the head in pic 1 just calls out to me :shrugs:
Either way they are cool looking

I agree. That head is far too narrow.

 

[princess]

I think this debate happened a while ago too. We get so used to thinking of cornsnake traits as being simple recessives that when we come across a 'co-dominant one' people have the tendancy to call it het rather than outcrossed.


It's much like Melanism in humans...whether you look black or white.

If a black person and a white person have a baby the baby will more often than not come out with a skin colour that is somewhere inbetween the parents. Some kids will looks more 30/70 rather than 50/50 but it's generally somewhere in between.


If this offspring of this couple goes on to have kids with a white person....the resulting offspring will still be a little bit identifiable as black but won't be nearly as dark skinned as their grandparent who was 100% (genetically) black.


The other example of opposites in cornsnake and homan inheritance is with blue eyes being a simple recessive in humans. My mum has blue eyes, my dad has brown, my brother and I have brown and my 2 sisters have blue. I can clonclude my mum is homozygous blue eyes and my dad is heterozygous blue eyes as my sisters got 2 coppies of the blue eyes gene from my parents.

I can therefor say I'm het for blue eyes :crazy02:

 

[princess]

What I was alluding to with the above post is that when you outcross a bloodred, it still carried the diffusion gene but it shows it more weakly than if you have a 'full blood'

Also, it's really late here and my spelling has gone to hell!!!!, I'm going to bed!!

Nite-all!

 

[SnakeAround]

Would the outcrossed titel also be used for amels from one bloodred parent? Then my amel is an outcrossed bloodred! I've pics of those when adult.... can't wait to see what she's going to look like!

 

[CornCrazy]

I change my opinion...I did not look close enough at the first snake. I missed the side pattern. I definitely say it is a normal...not a stripe or a motley.

And I don't think the head looks different from many of the other corns I've seen. I've seen them with long heads and short heads...wide heads and thin heads. I don't think you can call it a hybrid on that alone.

It seems as if every time someone wants an opinion about a corn, someone suggests hybrid. I think we have a bunch of hybridphobes here Seriously though...just remember that there can be a lot of variation in any species. Just because one looks a little different doesn't automatically mean it is a hybrid.

 

[cka]

I'll play...

1) Upper Keys locality corn snake
2) candy cane-ish amel
3) normal

I think my new signature line is going to be "Unless you know, you just don't know"...normal, het bloodred, motley, Upper Keys, some rat/corn hybrid (maybe a corn/'Glades rat)...That first snake's picture fits the description (in varying degrees) to all those I listed, jmho, and probably a few I left out...