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Question for breeders

Yvette

I am Yvette.
I was thinking about breeders today and thought "hey...that would be a great idea! They must make a load of money!" Then I started thinking about how much money you have to spend. You have to buy the snake's food, pay for the electricity to warm their tanks, buy the hatchling tubs and racks, maybe an incubator, and everything else! I guess you have to spend money to make money...but do you guys really make that much money, or is it a little extra cash?

P.S. I'm not asking how much you make, just as I stated before, is it the much more, or a little extra cash...
 
I'm going to be breeding for the first time next year. I have roughly 60 snakes (I'll have to check my list). I just spent about $400 on 1300 mice which I think will last roughly three months. I've spent several hundred dollars over the past year on tubs ranging from 6 qts to 41 qts and haven't yet built my rack system. I am trying to get my mom's husband to do that and my BD/agama/Leo/water dragon cages for a cheaper price.

I haven't bought my incubator(s) yet and I heat my room instead of a rack. Again, that's because I don't have racks yet. The room will be hot and humid anyway because I have three fish tanks and a turtle tank with no lid in that room. Unless you're big like Don or Kathy, I don't see breeding snakes as anything more than a hobby that might break even. I could be wrong though.

Kathy, do you break even? If you don't mind me asking, of course.
 
I kinda figured most people are doing it just because they like to, and don't worry about money.
 
The ones who make money aren't breeding normals. A normal corn goes for about 25 bucks, while stuff like fires go for about 60 if I am thinking right. Breeding desirable morphs that aren't easily made are worth more. You can also charge more if the corn is eating well.
 
Depends on the market as well. In 2007 and 2008 I did make a profit that went on feeding/maintaining my 14 adults. In essence, it was a self-funding hobby but it was never going to pay for a vacation or anything like that.

In 2009 I lost money as the market for Corns here in the UK started to slump. Not only that, but because of the fall-off in trade, I've been left with four of last year's hatchlings that I can't sell. They're actually costing me money and I've just had to accept that they are now semi-permanent residents until the market picks up - maybe in a year or two's time. I certainly won't get back what I'll have paid out looking after them.
 
Yes, market has a lot to do with it!! Also how wide of a variety, not just morphs, but species you have for sale has a lot to do with it. We just vended our first show this past weekend. It's not as big as, say the Daytona show, but its decent. We made a lil over $500. I coulda cared less if we only made $20, my husband and I just wanted to get our name out there. It was definately a learning experience and I enjoyed the whole weekend! We had very few adults, we sold every single cal king we had, a lot of garters, some ball pythons, and believe it or not corns was the least popular. Now that being said all we had were ghosts, hypos, normals, ultramels, amels, and a few other odds and ends. All have very nice hets though. But the customers were just looking for bright or pretty snakes for pets. They weren't concerned with the hets, which is what I was hoping for. But like I said we had a blast and can't wait to do it again. We've put a crap load of money into vet bills, racks, materials to build homemade racks, deli cups, water bowls, hides, electricity, tubs, etc etc. Have me made back what we put in? Absolutely not! Will we one day? I think so!
 
I might get flamed for this but this is what I think. I think that the only people who get rich off of breeding animals of any kind most likely don't take care of those animals very well. It may be a bit different with reptiles but I seriously doubt it.
 
I can see why you say that, but I'm sure its not true for everyone that breeds animals. I love each and every single one of my snakes (and all of my other animals) dearly. I can go thru and tell you every snakes name by heart! They are much more than just a way to get rich for me. Trust me I'm way in debt with them lol

But you also gotta think about the big time breeders. I shouldn't have to mention names. They are well known and their animals are very popular and desired. Surely just because they breed a lot of animals and make a ton of money off of them, doesn't mean that they don't take care of their animals? I mean if their animals were not well taken care of would they be so desired??

Don't get me wrong, I do see what you are saying. But the first animal that pops into my head are dogs. Puppy mills.
 
Yes I know. I didn't mean every breeder. I also doubt that the big time breeders didn't get rich right off the bat either. They had to build up and have been going for several years. Unless you want to be breeding snakes on a long term basis then no I don't think you can get rich off of it without putting the animals care at stake. This is what I meant.
 
I've made a profit breeding snakes for the last 20 years. It's not "big bucks" but it does make for some good summertime "fun money." I don't think anyone is getting rich off of breeding corn snakes anymore. The market was much better 10 years ago - right now it's pretty poor.

If you wish to breed snakes you might want to consider if you have outlets to sell them. If you have a monthly show in your town, that would be ideal. Keep in mind that if you don't, it costs about $50 to ship a snake. Not many people are going to want to spend $50 to have a $25, $35 or even $50 snake shipped to them. Keep in mind also that corn snake morphs are continuously dropping in price - so what you pay $100 for this year as a hatchling will be producing offspring that will be worth a fraction of that by the time the snake grows up and reproduces.

If you plan on shipping snakes, it also is useful to have decent digital camera (and photography skills) as well as a website. If you plan on doing shows, it's useful to have some sort of display, signage and lighting to set you apart from other vendors.

Making money breeding snakes is more involved than simply getting snakes to reproduce.

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I think that the only people who get rich off of breeding animals of any kind most likely don't take care of those animals very well
Have to say that I've never heard of any snake breeders "getting rich". Big names around here like Kathy Love might make a profit but they're by no means raking it in. Rich Z once made a very interesting post about the amount of work it takes to maintain a bulk breeding operation like the one he used to run. The amount of hours he had to put in was terrifying. His pro rata hourly rate must have been ridiculously low.

The only true way to make big bucks in snake breeding is to be the first to the market with a brand new - desirable - morph. And just because it's genetically new won't guarantee you anything. If it ends up as ugly as sin or it looks too much like an existing morph, then you're probably out of luck.

Even then, it'll be a one-hit wonder. You'll make the biggest amount selling for the first couple of years, then others will start breeding your morph and the price will collapse. New Corn morphs rarely command the sort of money you see with boids.

The bottom line is that breeding snakes is no way to get rich.
 
To sum it up for you, its some extra cash and you're lucky if you break even.

Don't breed snakes assuming people will magically appear and buy them, or that if you post them at this or that place for only $20 that people will buy them. It's harder work getting even just 1 clutch (10-20 babies) sold not to mention housing them, feeding them, and caring for that many babies until you do (if ever) sell them.
 
Although I never made as much per hour from my work of breeding snakes (after expenses) as I did when I worked as a nurse (LPN), there were many years when I was able to make a profit and contribute to household expenses as a medium sized, one person business (Bill did his own thing with writing, Madagascar tours, photography, etc).

But the last couple of years the market seems to have crashed big time. Although expenses keep going up (mouse food, electricity, supplies, etc), prices of herps keep going down. And even at the low current prices, not many people are buying. The shows have become giant flea markets. I see vendors offering baby amels and snows for $8 - $12 at many shows. I think that a lot of out of work herpers are trying to supplement their unemployment checks with anything they can, including breeding herps. OTOH, many breeders and hobbyists are either getting out, or downsizing big time. I see a lot more adults available the past 1 - 2 years than I ever have before. I have also downsized a lot, although I can't imagine ever getting out entirely, until I am too old or infirm to care for them. But I can't afford to keep losing money, so I am trying to consider this is an opportunity to concentrate on what I really love, and to thin out animals that no longer part of important projects. Some day, the recession will hopefully be over, and people will feel confident that their jobs are secure enough to enjoy spending a little money on "extras" again. By that time, I hope to have streamlined my stock to only projects that I am really excited about, and that will hopefully be exciting to customers, too. I think many other breeders are doing the same thing at this time. Lots of good deals out there because of it!

As painful as these downturns are, I think they are necessary to get some of the excess and wastefulness out of business. It is kind of a "survival of the fittest". Unfortunately, many businesses of all kinds are failing right now. But whichever ones survive will be in much better shape than the average business was at the beginning of the recession.

I think this is a great time to buy whatever kinds of morphs you always wanted, but couldn't afford. That is - if you have a job that you are not worried about losing shortly, lol! Many breeders will make great deals for cash now. I think it is a time for caution if you expect to break even, or better, during the recession. Breeding is not difficult - but marketing is not easy at any time, let alone now. But if you look at this as an opportunity to learn the hobby, and discover all of the intricacies of breeding and marketing during a difficult time, then you will be way ahead of the curve when things finally turn around and the market (hopefully) returns. Because so many will fail during this time, you may find much less competition by the time things finally turn around, if you begin on a small scale now.

So enjoy the hobby, learn a lot, and work towards breaking even. But definitely don't plan on it making the mortgage payment, at least not for a while, lol!
 
I have decided to dip my toes in the water of the breeding business. Am I doing it to get rich??? Hell no! Although making enough spare $$ to help with the hay bill for the horses in the winter would be nice. I also need to learn a lot and take my lumps with the rest of you! I wanna try this with Saharan sand boas because I've noticed most the Saharans out there seem to be wild caught. Where are all the captive bred? Of course my conscience tells me I'm starting with the hardest breed first! That's me! So I'll be reading this thread with great interest to see both sides of the story.

Devon
 
I want to find a nice looking male for my bubblegum girl and I would like to breed them. But not for the money. I think I would keep most of the babies myself or give them to friends who I know would take care of them. I just love the colors and would love more of these snakes and what better way to get a bunch of my own than to breed my own?
 
I think it was about my third year breeding that I actually make a profit of the amazing sum of $11. Since then, anything I have been able to bring in from the sale of snakes barely covers half my expenses. I am in the hobby for the pleasure it gives me. If I can offset my expenses enough to keep me from bankruptcy, all the better.
 
Ditto Susan, I don't even keep up with what we spend to take care of our babies or what we make compared to what we spend. I could care less, its a hobby and a love.
 
I wish I had some extra cash. There are some high-end corns I'd liketo have that dropped drastically in price. Great deals to be had on some great corns!

IF you can scrounge up some money, jump on these deals, because I'm thinkin the economy will be in a slump for probably 2 yrs. For a breeder, offspring from these high-enders will be in demand again.

IMO yearlings and subs will be ready to breed when the economy turns around. Upgrade your collection now!
 
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but do you guys really make that much money, or is it a little extra cash?

90% of my costs are covered by out of pocket.. I have never made a profit let alone cover expenses..

IF you can scrounge up some money, jump on these deals, because I'm thinkin the economy will be in a slump for probably 2 yrs. For a breeder, offspring from these high-enders will be in demand again.

IMO yearlings and subs will be ready to breed when the economy turns around. Upgrade your collection now!

Your very optimistic.. From what I see, its going to take longer than the next few years to recover.. I am not trying to damper or thwart spirit, I completely agree with Kathy, that the market has crashed, and its still going lower and lower.. Of course there are times when i seriously DO NOT regret in holding on to whole clutches of projects, which I have in the last couple of years on certain stuff.. Who knows, maybe one year just one clutch will cover the coasts for once, but I will definantly keep breeding and not hold my breath!
 
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