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Rabbit Pellets...

Ryan Harvey

Valley Pets!Best Quality!
Hello everyone,
I have been currently been feeding my mice rabbit pellets. After doing this I have noticed that they are having more litters then when I was feeding a mouse mix from Pets Unlimited. Once I started keeping about 20-30 mice at all times I figured I was spending to much money on that feed and started with the rabbit pellets(25kg bag for about 12 bucks) which seems to be doing just fine. Has anyone else fed rabbits pellets? What did you think?

Ryan
 
Basic rabbit pellets have close to the same ingredients as the food I make for my mice. The problem with mass produced mouse food is its ingredients, they generally severly lack vitamin K. If I HAVE to buy store foods I use rabbit pellets, companies seem to know rabbits need high vitamin K, but tend to leave it out of mouse foods. Vitamin K is ESENTIAL to healthy mice! Hamster and gerbil foods are a HUGE no no for mice, they'll make them fat, lazy, and decrease birth rates (something to do with peptidoglycans, have been looking for info on it for 15 years.. no luck really), but rabbit food is fine =)
 
Im using rabbit food to mate.The only problem I find.Most brands you get here in N.Ireland have these brown sticks in them I find my mice will not eat them but apart from that it's fine.
 
I've heard of people using rabbit pellets for bedding, but I've never thought of using rabbit diet pellets to feed mice. I suppose the high chlorophyll content in the pellets would make the mice a little less smelly. I've noticed that simply adding a healthy handful of timothy hay every cage cleaning for nesting and nibbling has really cut the odor quite a bit. And I did use a chlorophyll health additive liquid to the water of my mice, which helped as well. Only problem was that it stained the bottles.

Most mouse "mixes" with seeds you buy from pet stores are bad for the sheer fact that they contain more fat than anything else. And when you have a bunch of mice sitting around grazing all day and not getting the exercise a wild mouse would, it adds up pretty quickly. It'd be like us sitting around eating Snickers. I always loved how they say "fortified nutrition". All they do is spray on vitamins and minerals, which if you think about it, its on the shell...the part animals don't eat. The little 'tidbits' of nutritious shapes they put in there are artificially colored and most rodents ignore them completely. I wouldn't eat oatmeal if I had a snickers bar either.

My only issue with rabbit pellets as a staple diet would be the higher fiber, lower protein content and less fat.

Another issue I would have for rabbit pellets is the sheer quantity of Vitamin A they contain. Vitamin A can lead to accumulared toxicity in reptiles, and I don't know if the Vitamin A is synthesized into something else that's harmless while in the mouse before the feeding.

And you also have to consider, most people who have rabbits, don't breed them. So most of the diets don't contain enough necessary nutrients to keep a lactating mother fully supplied, like fat. Tame rabbits get obese rather easily from just the way they're housed generally. So the fat content they need is considerably less than that of a smaller rodent who's spitting out youngins every month.

I've always fed Mazuri Rabbit diet to my pet rabbits in the past which has:

14% protein
1.5% fat
20% - 24% fiber
.80% -1.3% Calcium
.5% Phosphorus
.75% -1.25% Salt
Vit. A - 8,000 IU/lb
Vit. E - 20 IU/lb

The diet I feed to my mice/rats is a mixture of two lab blocks: Mazuri Rodent Pellet (5EO9) and an ADM rodent diet formulated for a local rodent breeder. I cannot for the life of me find the Mazuri rodent diets in larger than 2lb bags. :angry01:

Information on the Mazuri Rodent Pellet:

23% protein
6.3% fat
4% fiber
.95% Calcium
.65% Phosphorus
.28% Salt
Vit. A - 15 IU/gm
Vit. E - 67 IU/gm

Information on my ADM Alliance Rodent Block:

16% protein
6% fat
5% fiber
1.5% Calcium
.8% Phosphorus
.8% Salt
Vit. A - 3500 IU/lb


I also suppliment their staple diet with Nutro Natural Choice dog food, Small World Rodent Suppliment, rolled oats, wheat germ, slightly crunched Wheaties cereal, and yogurt drops. Each mouse colony gets a tablespoonfull and every rat colony gets an 1/8 cup every cage cleaning.

Vitamin K is essential to every creature for circulatory health. Most animals make a sufficient supply of it thanks to beneficial bacteria in the gut, including ourselves. Vitamin K is fat soluable, so if you're not getting the right fats you need, you can't absorb the Vitamin K that's produced naturally or supplimented.

Rabbit diets are formulated for just that, rabbits. Rat/mouse diets are formulated for them. Each animal has a specific set of requirements that they need. I don't feed my dogs and cats people food and I don't eat dog/cat food. Maybe rabbit pellets in the UK are different than here in the US. I dunno. I might suppliment my rodent diets with a few rabbit pellets, but don't think I'd do it as a sole staple. I guess it if it works, use it. You can't deny results.


:-offtopic

I just can't resist...I didn't know 8 year olds were on a quest for more information about peptidoglycans. That'd be how old you were if you have been looking for 15 years. :rolleyes:
 
Anyone have any links to a website where I can order bulk rat feed. It's slim pickins around here as far as bulk feed goes.
 
Trevor~
try The Creature Company
http://thecreaturecompany.com/index.cfm?section=feeders

Thats where I get my rodent feed and I am very pleased with it. The owners of the Creature Company are always VERY busy. If they are too busy to drop off a small order to you~ ask if you can paypal them the payment and have an extra bag dropped off with my next order~ that way they don't have to arrange drop off for a small shipment and you don't have to buy 500# at a time like I do!
 
JM :o) said:
Trevor~
try The Creature Company
http://thecreaturecompany.com/index.cfm?section=feeders

Thats where I get my rodent feed and I am very pleased with it. The owners of the Creature Company are always VERY busy. If they are too busy to drop off a small order to you~ ask if you can paypal them the payment and have an extra bag dropped off with my next order~ that way they don't have to arrange drop off for a small shipment and you don't have to buy 500# at a time like I do!
Cool, thanks. I'm gonna call when I get back in town next Monday.
 
BTW~ I've used rabbit pellets for bedding too (but pelletised horse bedding~usually compressed pine~ works better!) I wouldn't feed it to the mice. I don't think it has the proper nutrients~ but I've not done any research into it. Not this year~ not last year~ not in the last 4 years or since I was 8....... For some reason I didn't think mice were herbavores like rabbits are?

I could be wrong..........I'm waiting for some information on the National Geographic special Gintha has on DVD~ I'll know more then.
 
Actually I was 9 when I started to breed mice.. and am 24 now =P There is a recipe in one post I did for the food I use... home made diet, tried and tested by 100s of breeders hehe =) By far the healthiest and no additives or preservatives! I'll try and link to the post tomorrow.. need to go to bed now hehe... midterm tomorrow ~,~
 
On an aside.. I have been reading medical texts since I was 4 and been a MENSA member since I was 5, after they thought I was odd and tested my IQ... which turned up to be exceptionally high, and then they believed me when I told them school was simply too boring. And yes, at 9, when I started my first genetics project, the mice breeding, I did start to look up info on food, and housing... and DNA coding and diseases.. I was born a science freak, I'll die a science freak =P I also have more logged lab hours that 1/2 the science profs at my university.. figure that one out =P Buncha slackers I have "teaching" me.
 
Medical texts at 4? Wow. My 4 yr old knows all the letters of the alphabet and the sounds they make too! You must be a genius. :sidestep:
 
JM :o) said:
BTW~ I've used rabbit pellets for bedding too (but pelletised horse bedding~usually compressed pine~ works better!)
Yeah, I agree. Great bedding, but I'll trust the lab blocks I use before plain rabbit pellets.
:-offtopic I use the horse bedding you describe as kitty litter! It works awesome, and costs about $4 for a 30 lbs bag!!!! :grin01:
 
Ummm... no... all the kids in my family knew our ABCs before we were 2.... its called stay at home mom LOL. In reality... a medical text is no harder to read than an encyclopedia (I read those too... they're pretty interesting LOL) Of course I had to ask what 1/2 the medical terms were, but heck... I still read them.

Regardless... this is the FEEDER section of a CORN SNAKE forum... we feed these snakes mice and rats.. I have many years experience breeding (well over 10,000 pups born) and regardless of how malcontent you are, I do know what I'm talking about.
 
Gintha said:
Regardless... this is the FEEDER section of a CORN SNAKE forum... we feed these snakes mice and rats.. I have many years experience breeding (well over 10,000 pups born) and regardless of how malcontent you are, I do know what I'm talking about.
If this was meant how it sounds, maybe you're taking yourself a little too seriously. :shrugs:
 
Apples are Apples, Oranges are Oranges, Rabbits are Rabbits, and Mice are Mice. Rabbits eat rabbit food, the animal it was developed for with optimum nutrition in mind. Mice eat mouse food, the animal it was developed for with optimum nutrition in mind.

Do you feed your mice rabbit pellets? Doesn't sound like you did. Why not? If they're pretty much the same, it should be the way to go considering rabbit pellets are cheaper. :rolleyes:

I read encyclopedias too, usually during the summer when I'd read every book I owned at least twice. Boredom is a great motivator. My mom always got mad cause I'd leave them strung all over the house.

Just because you claim to have a high IQ, doesn't mean anything to the world. I know a few people with high IQ's that can't function in society. A high IQ is only meaningful in how you use it. And if you continually use it to proclaim your superior intellect over others, well then it's not worth a dime.

I guess you're attempting to put me down because my mom worked, and yours didn't, so you're obviously smarter than myself. Maybe so. But if it caused me to turn out as stuffy and hoity-toity as you, well I'm glad I grew up the way I did, intelligently humble. A good grasp on reality can never be over-appreciated. Intelligence isn't everything, there is so much more to being human than being able to pass tests and brag about it.

FYI, 10,000 mice born doesn't make you an expert. If anything, someone with really tolerant parents and lots of room. I've raised quite a few animals of all different species from my childhood to now. I know quite a bit, but I don't claim to know everything. Kathy Love has produced thousands of corn snakes, she knows quite a bit, but she'd be the first to tell you that she doesn't know everything.

There's more to intelligence than being booksmart. I've done a lot of trial and error types of things, and feel all the better for learning that way. If I'd just regurgitated out of books, that just shows I know how to remember stuff, rather than deal with it practically.

If you want to go ahead and try to impress us more, feel free. Most of what you're saying can be interpreted as a sad attempt to be the center of attention. If you're infinitely smarter than we are, that's fine. Either learn to find some tact and manners and work with us folks here, or go find a Mensa Corn Snake forum and proclaim all that you know. Most of us find a way to respect one another around here without claims of IQ or intellgence being brought into play.


Oh, and btw, I had a 3 year old cousin that could cheat me at playing poker. Little sucker counted cards like an expert, and she can still do it to this day. Just goes to show, don't play poker with my cousin unless you like to lose a lot of animal crackers. :grin01:
 
Oooh heavens I really missed this one develop.

Gintha said:
On an aside.. I have been reading medical texts since I was 4 and been a MENSA member since I was 5, after they thought I was odd and tested my IQ... which turned up to be exceptionally high, and then they believed me when I told them school was simply too boring. And yes, at 9, when I started my first genetics project, the mice breeding, I did start to look up info on food, and housing... and DNA coding and diseases.. I was born a science freak, I'll die a science freak =P I also have more logged lab hours that 1/2 the science profs at my university.. figure that one out =P Buncha slackers I have "teaching" me.

Uh....just what in the world does this have to do with the current topic? Hate to be rude, but I just don't think anyone really cares if you were reading medical dictionaries at 4 (pfft, yeah right) or if you have an exceptionally high IQ. Neither one of those things mean much of anything---on this board or in life. To me, this quote screams, "I'm really smart, look at meeeeeeeeeeee". Sorry, but there was no need to even post what you said---though I find it interesting that 9 mins after you said you had to go to bed because you had a midterm in the morning. There was no new post that you had to respond to and gloat about your 'smarts', so I'm confused.

Despite the fact that you think that you're a breeding expert and that your experiences make mice/rat breeding fact, that's just not the truth. You've told people that they need to remove the males from the females because the males will eat the babies---yet I've personally had plenty of mice litters where that didn't happen, and so have MANY others on this forum. While what you've done has worked for you, it's not a solid truth that is totally right without question.

Oh, and btw, you never did divulge your super secret recipe.
 
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