random thoughts

[tsst]

The definition of the word "Conundrum" is: something that is puzzling or confusing.
Here are six Conundrums of socialism in the United States of America:

1. America is capitalist and greedy - yet half of the population is subsidized.

2. Half of the population is subsidized - yet they think they are victims.

3. They think they are victims - yet their representatives run the government.

4. Their representatives run the government - yet the poor keep getting poorer.

5. The poor keep getting poorer - yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.

6. They have things that people in other countries only dream about - yet they want America to be more like those other countries.
Think about it!

And that, my friends, pretty much sums up the USA in the 21st Century.
Makes you wonder who is doing the math.
These three short sentences tell you a lot about the direction of our current government and cultural environment
:
1. We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged TO judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works. And here's another one worth considering...

2. Seems we constantly hear about how Social Security is going to run out of money. But we never hear about welfare or food stamps running out of money! What's interesting is the first group "worked for" their money, but the second didn't. Think about it.....and Last but not least:

3. Why are we cutting benefits for our veterans, giving no pay raises to our military and cutting our army to a level lower than before WWII, but we are not stopping the payments or benefits to illegal aliens.

 

[Rich Z]

Perhaps the people who want a worldwide government realize that in order to build the omelet they need, WE are the eggs needed in that recipe.

 

[MesoCorney]

Here are some simple answers.
1. 1% of the population controls 98% of the wealth even with subsidies.
2.They need subsidies because they are victims of a system that refuses to pay them living wages.
3.If their representatives were truly theirs then they would not be victims.
4.refer to the last three.
5. It's called credit and it has been a horrible curse on our nation.
6.The countries we want to be like have more and better than us.

You only know your own very closed minded America.

 

[tsst]

Here are some simple answers.
1. 1% of the population controls 98% of the wealth even with subsidies.
2.They need subsidies because they are victims of a system that refuses to pay them living wages.
3.If their representatives were truly theirs then they would not be victims.
4.refer to the last three.
5. It's called credit and it has been a horrible curse on our nation.
6.The countries we want to be like have more and better than us.

You only know your own very closed minded America.

Even simpler answers

1. The 1% EARNED it
2. They not owed a living wage. They want more pay do something to DESERVE more pay.
3. Stop voting them in.
4. refer to the last three.
5. Nobody forces them to buy on credit. That is a concious choice.
6. :roflmao:

False I have been all over North America and most of Europe and some of the ME.

 

[MesoCorney]

How is being born into the right family earning it? You have no idea what any of these people go through on a daily basis. If you think your politicians have your interests in mind than you are truly deluded. Buying on credit is the American way. How would you expect someone who you and yours refuse to give a quality education to truly understand what they are getting into? Going somewhere has nothing to do with being open minded. I am sure Hitler and the KKK traveled.

 

[MesoCorney]

I also find it hilarious that you think a group of people who have little to no influence in this country can truly be the problem. Fox news is self admittedly false news.

 

[tsst]

How is being born into the right family earning it?
Very short sighted. To appease your fallacy, someone in the ‘right family’ earned it.

It's the right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. It's not the right to equal outcome no matter the commitment. It's not the right to free stuff at someone else’s expense. Socialism has failed around the globe why would we aspire to be failures?


You have no idea what any of these people go through on a daily basis.
Oh I have a pretty damn good idea. I grew up in a very average income family. My dad worked fulltime and ran a small business to raise a family. We were not by any means rich or well off. We ate every day because he worked very hard to make sure we did. I did not have many things others did but appreciated what I did have. I knew if I wanted more it was up to me to get it.

I also have family members that are perpetually on some sort of “assistance”. They had the exact same opportunity as did I but chose to pursue the minimum.

If you think your politicians have your interests in mind than you are truly deluded.
Your being new I will consider this an oversight. Perhaps you should read some of my past posts. I have NO faith in politicians doing any less than buying votes to stay in power. It is the modern day plantation. Only politicians have figured out a way to get folks to volunteer for it, removing motivation and ensuring dependence. Offering an Obamaphone was a pretty smart vote buy.

Buying on credit is the American way. How would you expect someone who you and yours refuse to give a quality education to truly understand what they are getting into?
Me and mine?!?! You don’t know me. Why the hell should I GIVE someone an education?!?! I went to public school and then worked my way through higher education paying for it. Some of which I did while serving this country. I didn’t get grants or stipends or scholarships.

Too much GIVING is part of the problem. It’s become an expectation, a way of life. And ensures dependence.

Going somewhere has nothing to do with being open minded.
I didn’t just 'go somewhere' I lived in Europe for 2 years. I experienced it, not just read a tourist pamphlet.

I am sure Hitler and the KKK traveled.
And there it is, Godwin and racist in one sentence. Thanks for your time.

:uhoh::nope::uhoh::nope:

 

[tsst]

I also find it hilarious that you think a group of people who have little to no influence in this country can truly be the problem. Fox news is self admittedly false news.

I find it sad that you believe a large portion of this country's citizens are wholly incapable of being self sufficient. That low influence group you speak of elected the current POTUS. That is seemingly pretty influential. They are not the problem, but are surely the main contributor to their own problems. A little personal accountability goes a long way.

Perhaps you should stop watching Fox news. :shrugs:

 

[Skull_Luv]

@tsst so based on what you have stated... it is my own fault I got laid off after working faithfully at my job and the fact I can't find a new one despite putting in 6+ applications a week is my own fault?

 

[MesoCorney]

Calm down. I did not compare you to hitler or the kkk, only used them as examples of close minded people. Living somewhere for two years is barely enough understand basic living. It is insulting to the locals that you think you understand their way of life. On top of the fact that you don't seem to care to understand those different from you in your own country, I find it hard to believe you understand much about other countries. I want you to look at the countries with the most educated citizens and then look into their education systems. Also look at the economic standing of these countries. Then look at the countries with the healthiest citizens and look at their systems. If you don't feel like it, I can tell you socialism has not failed. Your average income family is no longer the norm, and realize you had some advantages over those less fortunate based not on your ability to work hard. I can tell that you haven't done much real hard work as if you had you would realize that hard work generally doesn't equate more money. In fact I have found the harder the physical work the less money I make. The only way America can become great again is if it's citizens decide to invest in our own future.

 

[Rich Z]

Interesting. So let me ask this. If someone inherits money, and as shown here some seem to feel that since they didn't actually earn it, then they are not DUE it, what would you suggest as a suitable disposition for that money?

 

[MesoCorney]

My point is not that they should not inherit it, it is only that the OP is way off on his hard work kick. Most people have received some sort of help or another from their family, including myself. Inheritance is not the real problem either. He complains about the poor taking subsidies when those are only a fraction of the money that big corporations get in tax breaks and money they ship over seas. Even if there are some issue with welfare, which I tend to agree with, blaming those who have nothing and get very little does not sit well with me.

 

[Rich Z]

My point is not that they should not inherit it, it is only that the OP is way off on his hard work kick. Most people have received some sort of help or another from their family, including myself. Inheritance is not the real problem either. He complains about the poor taking subsidies when those are only a fraction of the money that big corporations get in tax breaks and money they ship over seas. Even if there are some issue with welfare, which I tend to agree with, blaming those who have nothing and get very little does not sit well with me.

So, do you or do you not believe that the reason some people have nothing might very well be their own fault because of their own choices? Do you or do you not believe that some people on welfare prefer it that way rather than actually having to work for a living? Do you or do you not believe that everyone on welfare is there really because of no other choices available to them?

 

[MesoCorney]

I am not now or ever willing to punish those who truly need and deserve it in order to catch those who do not. I already stated that I know there are problems but to say that our nation is failing because of anyone on welfare is ridiculous. Welfare accounts for 2% of governmental spending. You need to find a better scapegoat.

 

[Rich Z]

I am not now or ever willing to punish those who truly need and deserve it in order to catch those who do not. I already stated that I know there are problems but to say that our nation is failing because of anyone on welfare is ridiculous. Welfare accounts for 2% of governmental spending. You need to find a better scapegoat.

So would you say that putting in stringent controls that target those people scamming the system to weed them out would be considered as punishment for the entire group on "welfare"?

And speaking of which, when you say "welfare" in reference to that 2% figure, are you talking about a single specific program, or are you being all inclusive of ALL programs that provide any assistance to anyone, whether or not they are actually needful and deserving? And is this solely on the directly overt federal level, or are programs that cause price increases from "pass through taxes" to consumers for products and services at the local level also included?

Any wild guesses on how much of the $18 trillion dollars the USA is now in debt is being caused by such programs being taken advantage of by people who should NOT be eligible? This should be allowed to continue? When this country goes bankrupt, what will those people who actually need assistance do then?

 

[tsst]

Calm down. I did not compare you to hitler or the kkk, only used them as examples of close minded people. Living somewhere for two years is barely enough understand basic living. It is insulting to the locals that you think you understand their way of life. On top of the fact that you don't seem to care to understand those different from you in your own country, I find it hard to believe you understand much about other countries. I want you to look at the countries with the most educated citizens and then look into their education systems. Also look at the economic standing of these countries. Then look at the countries with the healthiest citizens and look at their systems. If you don't feel like it, I can tell you socialism has not failed. Your average income family is no longer the norm, and realize you had some advantages over those less fortunate based not on your ability to work hard. I can tell that you haven't done much real hard work as if you had you would realize that hard work generally doesn't equate more money. In fact I have found the harder the physical work the less money I make. The only way America can become great again is if it's citizens decide to invest in our own future.

I do care to understand about differences here. I admittedly have difficulty understanding why some feel little personal responsibility in their plight in life. But those same folks are seemingly ok bestowing immense responsibility on others to be responsible for them. :shrugs:

Look at other countries.
Ok education systems. Fact the USA has the most foreign student populous of any developed country. Nearly a million foreign students a year come here for higher education. Lower education has steadily dropped IMHO due in most part to the unconstitutional Dept of Education. Political policies have been detrimental to our lower education system.

Health systems and health of citizenship are two different things. We are some unhealthy people but have the absolute best health system on the planet. That is to say based purely on care and tech and ability. The Cleveland Clinic for example cared for people from over 80 different countries most of which came from socialized medicine systems to here.

There is exponentially more tech available here. For example MRI machines, Canada has 4.5 per million patients the USA has 20 per million. The average wait time for an MRI according to the Ministry of Health is 87 days in Canada. The average wait time in the USA 18 days. 9 out of the latest 10 most important medical advancements originated in the USA.

How about survivability. Breast cancer mortality is 52% higher in Germany than in the US. It is 88% higher in the UK than the US. Prostate cancer mortality is 604% higher in the UK than in the US. It is 457% higher in Norway than in the US. It is 184% higher in Canada than in the US. How about preventative care. 89% of middle aged American women get mammograms only 72% in Canada. 96% have pap smears 90% in Canada. 54% of age grouped men in US have a PSA test. It’s 16% in Canada. 30% have a colonoscopy in the US. It’s 5% in Canada.

How about R&D. The top 5 hospitals in the US conduct more clinical trials than all hospitals combined in any other single developed country. The Nobel Prize in medicine has been awarded to American residents more often than all other countries combined. Only 5 times in the last 34 years has it not gone to an American scientist.

Now the health of US citizens and life expectancies are directly contributable to our awful lifestyle. Fatty diets, lack of exercise, etc.
If you want to argue it’s too expensive I agree. But to lower cost and go socialized you would need to accept the fact you would be 604% more likely to die from prostate cancer. And may have to wait months for care.

Ok now hard work. I use the term figuratively. As in both physically and mentally. Please don’t presume you know me. I can guarantee I have worked very hard for what I have in life. That utter BS Obama line if you have a business you didn’t build it is infuriating to those that DID.

To your last point, oy vey. The way for America to become great again is the same way we did the first time personal responsibility and individuals achieving in a capitalist economy governed by a free Constitutional Republic. Government dependency is what in part is dragging us down. Ask Greece how well dependency works.

 

[MesoCorney]

How could you not see that capitalism unchecked is why we are so unhealthy as a nation?
Here is a whole article on why your cancer statistics hold little to no meaning. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/cancer-rates-and-unjustified-conclusions/
Your r&d argument holds no water either as the us has historically had the biggest medical industry. In fact by percentage of total medical r&d spending the us government spends about equally as much on as other developed countries.
You think you could get treatment at the Cleveland clinic? The majority of America could not. We are talking about the country in general stop using incredibly specific examples.
As far as the Obama quote, you sound weak using just a piece of it for your own will. He is talking about giving back to America for what it has given you.
You mean like the new deal that brought us out of the depression caused by capitalism? It is asinine to treat either capitalism or socialism as if they are facts of nature. Doesn't using both when appropriate seem a bit more logical?

 

[MesoCorney]

Not to mention only one of the countries you named is even in the top ten for what is considered the best health care. If you are really concerned with cancer survival rates check out Japan.

Rich Z I know where you are going with this so you can stop with the subliminal questions. You think it is better to spend billions on implementing what you consider checks then give the money to who it is intended for. Yes I was referring to the welfare program, which is by far the biggest and most encompassing of these programs you speak of. There is no way to quantify how much of the debt is from a certain thing. It is overspending across the board, and compared to what we have spent on war mongering in the middle east and the war on drugs it is minuscule. If you want to talk about real proven solutions dealing with education, job training, housing, drug rehabilitation, health care(both physical and mental), and any other ideas you might have then I am willing to follow. Just a what if scenario but if you take the money away from these folks then what? They have no skills appreciable skills. Do you think they will get some remedial job making less than what they need to live? Or would it make more sense to be involved in crime and make 50 times the amount of money? Especially the drug users you have been hinting at. Think about this. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Rich Z]

Not to mention only one of the countries you named is even in the top ten for what is considered the best health care. If you are really concerned with cancer survival rates check out Japan.

Rich Z I know where you are going with this so you can stop with the subliminal questions. You think it is better to spend billions on implementing what you consider checks then give the money to who it is intended for. Yes I was referring to the welfare program, which is by far the biggest and most encompassing of these programs you speak of. There is no way to quantify how much of the debt is from a certain thing. It is overspending across the board, and compared to what we have spent on war mongering in the middle east and the war on drugs it is minuscule. If you want to talk about real proven solutions dealing with education, job training, housing, drug rehabilitation, health care(both physical and mental), and any other ideas you might have then I am willing to follow. Just a what if scenario but if you take the money away from these folks then what? They have no skills appreciable skills. Do you think they will get some remedial job making less than what they need to live? Or would it make more sense to be involved in crime and make 50 times the amount of money? Especially the drug users you have been hinting at. Think about this. Be careful what you wish for.

I'm not trying to be subliminal at all. Actually I thought I was being pretty blatant about what the people reading this should be thinking about.

So, you believe that paying extortion payments to people not willing to have a job, to not commit crimes, is the answer? How is that working out so far?

 

[Rich Z]

You think it is better to spend billions on implementing what you consider checks then give the money to who it is intended for.

Eh?? How did you get that from my questions? No, that's not what I am driving at. I believe the government could SAVE billions by not spending money unnecessarily on people who seem to be professional multi-generational welfare recipients. And particularly when it comes to ILLEGAL aliens coming into this country and immediately getting onto the welfare roles simply by being in this country. Quite frankly, I don't believe anyone actually working and producing income should be forced to pay for such nonsense. Now if YOU want to voluntarily donate most or even all of your income for this, then more power to you. That is your decision.

Anyway, if you hate this capitalistic country so much and prefer the socialist or even communist way of life, why don't you go to a country more in line with what you want? Were you born and raised in this country?

Socialism and communism are things that sound real nice on paper, but the fatal flaw is that they STILL need to be run by people. And people who have power in any form will normally always want more and more until those societies no longer even remotely resemble the bill of goods the people got sold in order to engage in that way of life.

You want this for the USA? Good luck with that. A lot of people, me included, will die in the effort to prevent that.