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Rats vs Mice

DrGraeme

DrGraeme

Chiropractor
When it comes to corns, is there really any difference in feeding them either rats or mice? (besides size of prey)

I have just started feeding my corn 2 mouse pinkies at a feeding but the bulge doesn't look excessive (she is 10g and 31 at last weigh in about a month ago). The Calking (recent aquisition) aparently was eating mouse fuzzies.

Would there be any issues starting them on rat? Gonna be starting a rat colony for my BP.
 
Rats, especially young rats, have a higher fat content than young mice. If you're feeding two pinkies at a time, the prey items will actually line up end to end in the stomach instead of side by side. The bulge this way won't be as evident.

If you're feeding two mouse pinks at the moment, even rat pinkies might be too large for your snake.
 
Ok, I see where you're going with that...
Would it make a difference to maybe cut the rat pink down to size??? Maybe remove the head or give half?
 
Actually... If I get this colony up and going... it will take over 6 weeks for them to produce anyway so the timing would be better, The 2 little ones will be bigger.
 
Day old rat pinks are the size of a very large fuzzy, I feed rats when my corns get to the size where they can take hoppers. but you have to watch out for their weight, rats are fatty, and higher in protein, so instead of every 5-7 days it would be every 7-10 days, my adults eat large rat pups every other Wednesday, ppl think this is mean, but if I dont they get overweight fast. Rats are much easier to breed then mice. my mice colonies keep escaping or dieing off on me lol. I eventually gave up.
 
This might sound like a silly question... but how do you tell if your snake is overweight or "fat"??
Underweight I understand (lose skin, able to see/feel top of spine), but not sure of overweight.
 
When Corns get overweight, they sometimes look kind of like they're wearing a sweater too sizes too small. The scales no longer overlap and you can see areas of skin between them.

Other signs in growing Corns are where their heads seem disproportionately small for their bodies - this indicates that their body is growing faster than their head.

Adults can develop uneven fat deposits. These usually appear as squishy lumps on either side of the body down near the vent - we call them "hips", but they can potentially appear anywhere on the body. However this isn't always associated with overfeeding as some seem to inherit the predisposition from their parents.

A significantly overweight Corn will actually *feel* fat when you pick it up. A healthy Corn will feel like solid miscle when you pick it up and as it moves around. An overweight Corn will never be able to tense up completely and the worst will feel rather like you're holding a sock filled with jelly.

You can't go just by weight either. A 300g Corn can be overweight, whilst an 800g Corn can be solid healthy muscle with no flab. It's different for each snake, which is why it can be really difficult to judge.

Also, as I know to my cost, weight can creep on very slowly and sometimes it isn't obvious to you until the snake is a bit of a bloater. At that point, getting the flab back off can take a long time. When in doubt I'd always advise feeding slightly less than you think you ought to , rather than slightly more. Again, how Corns metabolise food varies between individuals. What is a maintenance diet for one can pile on the pounds for another and not be enough for a different one, even with clutchmates.
 
I am glad u posted this. We were going to start a mouse colony but have also heard that rat colonies are easier. How hard is it to switch over from mice to rats in corns, kings, rats and balls? I was worried that my picky eaters wouldn't eat.
 
Since rats are fattier than mice would a rat feeding regimen of every two weeks be apropriate for adults?
 
4riscorn said:
I am glad u posted this. We were going to start a mouse colony but have also heard that rat colonies are easier. How hard is it to switch over from mice to rats in corns, kings, rats and balls? I was worried that my picky eaters wouldn't eat.
Click to expand...

Kings, corns and rats are easy switches.

Balls should always STAY on rats, Because they can get hooked on the taste of mouse, and when its time to eat anything bigger then a jumbo (Balls will eventually eat a med rat) they will already be hooked on the taste. and can be near impossible to switch.

I've never had a problem switching over and of the Colubrids to rats. If they get picky, starve them out for a week. wont hurt the snake if they are feeding normally and a good weight. If you have an issue switching (and I'm not saying rats are better just answering a question folks) you can scent the rat by defrosting it in the same bag as a mouse.

On another note... one of the things I stress at work, and to anyone owning a snake is this, Snakes don't have a lot of places to hold their fat, the first place it builds up is around the organs, particularly the heart. Make sure your animals get handled on a regular basis, one reason is to keep them handle-able but another good reason is exercise, I'm not talking treadmills or anything like that, but a good couple of hours out of the tank every week keeps the fat at bay.

As far as telling if your snake is overweight or just big boned ;) I agree with Bitsy. You just have to know your snake, pay attention the feel and the look, but most of all use common sense.

4riscorn if you want tips on starting a colony or want to see my set up let me know. I will be glad to take pictures and write down whatever will be helpful for you. If you want to stick to mice there are a TON of ppl here on cornsnakes.com that breed their own and they will be glad to give you tips on getting started. Just know that is a slow start. you have to breed up your stock and breeders and not kill any off at first. Also prekilling can be heart wrenching and for that fact alone it might be better to stick to buying in bulk from places like Layne Labs and the like. :)
 
Thanks for the info! We have had our ball for about 2 months and he has been on jumbo brown and black mice from American Rodent. He was on rats prior to us gtn him.
We used to get our mice from Rodent Pro then found American Rodent...the picky eaters we have took to the new mice like candy. I was surprised. We buy like 1,000 at a time because a local friend who bought 11 of our snakes said that the were refusing store bought mice so we sell her some of ours. I thought it would be easier to do our own. Mike already has a co2 chamber that he made for our non-thriving snakes...hatchlings which we bought a king snake in hopes to have a garbage disposal: ) but she runs from them..lol
I have heard that a rat colony is faster and easier than mice. Is that true? I have spoken to some people who have been trying mice colonies only to find them killing each other off.
Decisions decisions
 
Ah the great debate of which is better. From a breeder stand point I will say rats are 10 times better IMO. The rats have a higher and better calcium(larger bones equal more Calcium) Also with rats still nursing you get all the milk that is still stored inside the feeders. Mice have a lower fat content but I still think Rats are way healthier....
 
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