Some general questions

PatrickBateman · Oct 18, 2007

Yesterday I went to the pet store and bought a corn snake. The dude who sold it to me was an asian dude who barely spoke english, so I am getting most of my information about it from the internet. The snake's name is Jemaine.

Anyway I was reading through several guides to get a general idea, but I need some more advice.

Currently his setup is a 10 gal tank with a metal grid top. Sitting directly on top of the cage is a Heat light. Inside I have a water bowl that is about 5 or 6 inches across and maybe three and a half inches deep. I also put in about 1.5 inches of some bark I bought. There is also a big knot of wood in there for cover.

So heres my questions
1. Is having the heat lamp sitting directly on top of the cage a good idea? Will this make it too hot?
2. Do I leave the heat light on 24/7 non stop, or do i need to put it on a timer so the snake gets darkness and cold?
3. I am interested in breeding my own mice or hamsters to feed Jemaine, how do I go about doing so? Is there an faq someone can point me towards? Will stores sell male and female breeding mice to me?
4. Is the water dish the right size? My snake is probably 1.5-2 feet long at this point and I read it is supposed to be able to fit completely inside of it.
5. Is it normal for the snake to spend all of its time burried underneath the tree bark? Is this because it is cooler underneath there, or is it just scared of its new tank and it is hiding?

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me on these topics. Thanks for reading.

Bluebird · Oct 18, 2007

Congrats on your new snake!

First thing...

instead of the heat lamp, you are going to need an UTH ( under the tank heater ), and a rheostat to control the heat temp of the UTH. Heat lamps are not a very good heat source for snakes when they need to be able to get to heat at any given time ( especially during digestion ). You should do this soon, and they are not very costly, and much better peace of mind

The UTH should cover 1/3 the bottom of the tank, and you need to have a place for your snake to hide on the warm side, and one on the cool side. You will need thermometers, one on the warm side, one on the cold, so that you can monitor temp fluctuations.

Hiding is your snakes nature

Give him at least 4 days to settle in before handling and feeding

Can't help you with the mice..lol

Bluebird · Oct 18, 2007

oh, and aspen shavings are great for the bottom of you tank, it is the most recommended for substrate

Corny Noob · Oct 18, 2007

While I admire doing the research and all, it should be done before hand. Oh well.

Ok

1. Is having the heat lamp sitting directly on top of the cage a good idea? Will this make it too hot?

Yes it most likely will get too hot, even if you just take two peices of wood and use that the prop it up from the lid, it could burn the snake. But you should be regulating it. How are you getting your tempatures? They should be low to mid 80's on the hot side and low to mid 70's on the cold side.

2. Do I leave the heat light on 24/7 non stop, or do i need to put it on a timer so the snake gets darkness and cold?

Well if that's your only source of heat and it gets to cold in your house at night then yes. So you need to get a red bulb, the snakes can't see it. Again it needs to be regulated, leave even a 20watt house lamp on all day and feel how hot it gets. If it's too hot for you it'll probally kill your snake.

3. I am interested in breeding my own mice or hamsters to feed Jemaine, how do I go about doing so? Is there an faq someone can point me towards? Will stores sell male and female breeding mice to me?

Honestly hamsters are the devil most of the time for snake food I advise staying away from them. Someone with more breeding experience can explain to you about the mice. Some pet stores won't sell if you're breeding for food, so just don't tell them then.

4. Is the water dish the right size? My snake is probably 1.5-2 feet long at this point and I read it is supposed to be able to fit completely inside of it.

They honestly don't soak in their dish that much and if they do it's probally too hot in the cage or they need more humidity for shed. Most of them just drink and poop in their dish.

5. Is it normal for the snake to spend all of its time burried underneath the tree bark? Is this because it is cooler underneath there, or is it just scared of its new tank and it is hiding?

Yes it's normal, even when it settles in it's normal. Snakes don't hang out on the surfface all day, it's scary, it's not their thing. But also you should make sure that you have at least one snug hide on each side of the cage (warm and cold side) open hides they won't use they need the security.

Also do keep in mind that 10 gallon is not a permanent home, at LEAST a 20gallon long is in your future.
Since I know nothing else about your set up I'll say you need a thermometer on each side, monitoring the surface tempature, stick on thermometers are crap and very inaccurate, get a thermometer with probe.
Also as a means to regulating your heat you will need either a rheostat or a thermostat, more info can be provided on this.

Lastly
PICS! GIVE US PICS

Kokopelli · Oct 18, 2007

I will try to help out as much as I can and I positive others will have just as beneficial inputs to add to it:

1- It might be too hot, yes. The first rule is to maintain a proper temperature and you -must- keep it in check via a thermometer. If the lamp is placed within the tank, you should make sure to arrange an enclosure around it so that the snake will not come in contact with it and suffer from heat-burns. If it's outside of it- grand. In both cases, regulating the temperature is a must. I will allow others to answer the exact numerals... I use Celsius which I doubt will help much.

2- It is not recommended to leave the lamp on all the time. There have been cases of stress due to the snake's biological clock go hay-wire. Stress can cause eating disorders, aggression and immunity system weakness. It is best to turn it off at night and allow to temperatures to drop- thus emulating their natural environment. Again, one must make sure the temperature does not drop drastically.

3- Get a cage with 1 male and 4 or 5 females... that should get you going.... but it is best to do this before getting the snakes so you have a supply of mice... you will have to rely on bought mice at first.

4- As long as it is big enough for him to get into- sure, it's fine.

5- It's normal, they love to hide. It is further amplified in your case because the snake is indeed getting used to his new surroundings as you suggested.

Hope this helped.

susang · Oct 18, 2007

By no means do I disagree with what you have been told but I may have a few alternate suggestions.
1,2,5. I would check the "metal" lid to make sure it is not getting hot from the lamp. UTH is always better, but you can use a red light (pet store) 50 watt for a 10 gal, this you can leave on 24/7. The red light provides no light for the snake just heat (they can't see red). You can get an inexpensive rheostat at Walmart to regulate the heat and a probe type kitchen thermometer. Put the therm. probe under the aspen check temp on both ends. You should have one end where the light is 80-85 degrees and the other end cool 70-75 degrees. If you put 3" of aspen you double the area of the bottom of the tank and yes snakes love to burrow. You also need hides one on each end which can be toilet or paper towel tubes. Water dish sounds right the dog dishes that have opening for picking up are great because they serve as a hide o the cool side.

As for mice you can keep 1.4 mice in a ten gallon. It will take a while for the colony to establish. Once you get them in there home don't change them out or take one out as food. They establish a faimily and disturbing it can cause absorbtion of babies or eating babies. Once they start having babies, never take all the babies, if I need day old pinks say, I take about 2/3 of litter and leave the rest. If you need fuzzies same thing, once they become hopper size you can take remaining babies. Again once established the colony will have all sizes at one time. Females can get pregnant within 24 hours after having a litter. It can take 3-6 months to establish a colony. I usually let a couple babies grow to breeding size and then cull older breeders. Also cull mature males leaving only one to avoid fighting. hope this helps, susang

Rich in KY · Oct 18, 2007

PatrickBateman said:
The snake's name is Jemaine.

Welcome to you and Jemaine!

PatrickBateman said:
Currently his setup is a 10 gal tank with a metal grid top.

You need some way to secure the top to the tank. You will be suprised how good corns are at escaping. They sell clips to do this. Or you can simply put weight on top of it. If you use weight, make sure it rest on the edge of the top and not on the gird.

PatrickBateman said:
I also put in about 1.5 inches of some bark I bought.

You need to be careful. Some barks can be dangerous to snakes.

PatrickBateman said:
So heres my questions
1. Is having the heat lamp sitting directly on top of the cage a good idea? Will this make it too hot?
2. Do I leave the heat light on 24/7 non stop, or do i need to put it on a timer so the snake gets darkness and cold?

One thing that needs to be mentioned. Cornsnakes need "belly heat" to aid in digestion. This is why many people prefer UTH's. The tank needs a warm side and a cool side. This allows Jemaine to regulate his body temp.

PatrickBateman said:
4. Is the water dish the right size? My snake is probably 1.5-2 feet long at this point and I read it is supposed to be able to fit completely inside of it.

It is fine. Make sure to keep fresh water for him.

PatrickBateman said:
5. Is it normal for the snake to spend all of its time burried underneath the tree bark? Is this because it is cooler underneath there, or is it just scared of its new tank and it is hiding?

Yes it normal for Jemaine to spend a lot of time hiding. Right now I am sure he is scared of his new home. Once he is comfortable, you should start to see him out. Usually at night, but some snakes come out at any time.

Good luck with your new snake. If you have more questions feel free to ask.

MerlinsPop · Oct 18, 2007

susang said:
You can get an inexpensive rheostat at Walmart to regulate the heat and a probe type kitchen thermometer. Put the therm. probe under the aspen check temp on both ends. You should have one end where the light is 80-85 degrees and the other end cool 70-75 degrees.

I'd only change one thing that susang said and modify one other...

Change - if you use overhead heat (I'm with the majority, though, that advocates using UTH (Under Tank Heater)), but many snakes have lived perfectly well with overhead heat. BUT if you do use overhead heat, you want to put the thermoter probes ON TOP of your substrate (most prefer aspen, as do I). Basically, you're measuring the hottest spot (to make sure it's not too hot) and the coldest spot (for, well, you know). You can bury the wires for aesthetics, but leave the probe head sticking out above the surface.

Modify - Wal*Mart (The Reptile Keeper's Superstore, doncha know!) sells pretty inexpensive indoor/outdoor thermometers with two probes. So... put one on the hot side and one on the cold side and you're golden. You can leave the control head right there in the tank. Your snake with cruise over or around it.

Good luck, and Welcome!

PatrickBateman · Oct 18, 2007

Hey guys thanks for the quick replies. You guys really know what you are talking about.

Thats a bummer that I have this light for no reason now. I guess the general consensus is that Under the Tank heaters are the way to go. Can anyone recommend me one of these? Are there websites that sell these that I can ship to my house? What kind of money do i have to spend to get a decent enough "UTH" for a 10 gal tank?

Also if anyone can link me to a store that sells a cheap 2 probe thermometer, I would probably order that too. If not, I'll pick one up when i go home this weekend.

As it stands, I have a little black strip thermometer stuck to the wall at the bottom inside of the tank. This is in the hot part of the tank. Right now it reads between 82-84 degrees. I guess thats reasonable enough for now until i get a new heating system in a few days.

Securing the top: I read in a guide that corn snakes can escape easily, so I put a pretty heavy guitar wah-wah pedal on top of the cage to keep it weighed down nicely.

A few more questions:

1. How do i know if the snake is male or female?
2. How do i know how old it is? Is his length a good way of determining age?
3. What should I do for the next few days until i can get an UTH? Should I leave the heat lamp on 24/7, or turn it off at night. I would get the room temperature at night is around 70 degrees.
4. When i get the Under the tank heater, Should I put it on one side, and leave the water dish on the other side of the tank?
5. I have a hamster cage. Is this a suitable environment to raise a family of mice? Are mice the only feeding option, or can I try to breed gerbils, hamsters or rats? Are there any other live food options besides small vermin?

here is a camera phone picture I took of Jemaine after I put him in his tank.

PatrickBateman · Oct 18, 2007

that picture didn't show up, lets try this:

Stregone · Oct 18, 2007

Bark is bad for snakes. Take a hand full of that stuff and get a good wiff of it. If you smell anything it is BAD for your snake. Some bark is supposedly okay but I'd avoid it all together. The aromatic chemicals trees produce to fend off insects and such are concentrated in the bark.

Lennycorn · Oct 18, 2007

Most of the items your seeking you can get a a local shop or Chain (pet) store.

You need to get the snake probe to sex it, this should be done by a breeder or vet but if you have no plans on breeding yet wait till you run into someone.
Length vary from one snake to another but we could give you a guess?

If the room temp in the tank is 70 degrees, your fine.

yes uth on one side and water on other
and I'm not sure on the cage for the mice.

Lennycorn · Oct 18, 2007

Random8A · Oct 18, 2007

Hi There,

Ok I can answer a few of your questions, for one you can tell your snake is a male or female by either getting it Popped or Probed, this may be done by your Herp Vet.

As for the food, a breeding pair of mice will do, your guy looks like he is eating hoppers? Or since you have one snake, you can buy on line, at a expo or from a pet shop F/T or live mice,rats not sure about gerbils and others.

Yes, the UTH may be placed under ( I perfer the right side ) but thats just IMO. And water on the other side.

As for the lighting, a day bulb may be good for 12 hours of the day, but at night time, I would suggest a dark reptile bulb.

Even once you get the UTH I would keep the lights going,just so their not sitting in the dark, IMO.

Also Zoo med or one called Heat Wave are pretty good brands of UTH's .

I would suggest a 20 gallon tank or larger ( as I really dont know how old or long your snake is ) I personally wouldnt spend the money on a 10 gallon UTH only to have to upgrade.

But if you were to do this you might be able to get away with a 15 Gallon one? They range from 15 to 25 dollars?

I had to go to the petstore the other day, for two 20 gallon UTH and spent 70 dollars :-/. I guess my pets stores are not that cheap. But I know they can get pricey. But my snakes LOVE them!

As for the locks, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! dont rely on just something lying on the top of the lid, get tank locks, they are magicians, they really are, I've seen them squeeze in the amazing spots, just take a look around this site with other memebers personal experiences!

Hope I could help at that least!

He/she is really a beautiful snake. Good Luck!

Kokopelli · Oct 18, 2007

PatrickBateman said:
A few more questions:

1. How do i know if the snake is male or female?
2. How do i know how old it is? Is his length a good way of determining age?
3. What should I do for the next few days until i can get an UTH? Should I leave the heat lamp on 24/7, or turn it off at night. I would get the room temperature at night is around 70 degrees.
4. When i get the Under the tank heater, Should I put it on one side, and leave the water dish on the other side of the tank?
5. I have a hamster cage. Is this a suitable environment to raise a family of mice? Are mice the only feeding option, or can I try to breed gerbils, hamsters or rats? Are there any other live food options besides small vermin?

here is a camera phone picture I took of Jemaine after I put him in his tank.

1- There are a couple of methods. One which I favour is probing. Go to an experienced breeder and ask him to probe your snake.
The other method is popping out, which I am quite against. Forcing sterile tissue into the open air is not something I really want to encourage, and if not done properly it can seriously harm a snake. Again, these are things best left to experienced snake keepers.

2- Best way is to ask the pet shop owner I guess. Seeing as size varies immensely and depends on how frequent and large his meals are... If he ain't 3-4 feet long then it is safe to assume he is around 1-3 years or so. Huge range, but best I can think of.

3- I'd turn it off at night. As I have said before though. Thermometer is a -must- to make sure the temperature does not drop or escalate drastically.

4- That's what I do with all of my snakes. It works well enough for me.

5- Yes you can breed other animals for food. However, some snakes may refuse to eat things which they are not used to. And sometimes they like the new item so much that they won't revert back to their old food source- this is more common in other snakes than corns but you never know....

I would at least start with mice and see how that goes. I don't believe you will need full sized rats... not anytime soon if ever.

Rich in KY · Oct 18, 2007

PatrickBateman said:
1. How do i know if the snake is male or female?

You need to get it probed by someone that knows what they are doing

PatrickBateman said:
2. How do i know how old it is? Is his length a good way of determining age?

Unless you know the birthdate, you can only make a guess at the age. Length is not an accurate way to age a snake cause snakes will grow at different rates.

PatrickBateman said:
3. What should I do for the next few days until i can get an UTH? Should I leave the heat lamp on 24/7, or turn it off at night. I would get the room temperature at night is around 70 degrees.

This is up to you. The snake should be ok for a short term at 70*F at night or if you leave the light on, as long as it doesn't get too hot (over 90*F), the snake may stay hidden even at night.

PatrickBateman said:
4. When i get the Under the tank heater, Should I put it on one side, and leave the water dish on the other side of the tank?

The UTH should cover about 1/3 of the tank. You can get a ZooMed UTh for about $15 for a 10gallon tank that is the perfect size. Most petstores should carry or you can get online from Petco.com or Petsmart.com. Yes put the water on the cool side. Also make sure you have hides for the snake on both sides.

Rich in KY · Oct 18, 2007

Sorry to keep answering after others have answered. I am a slow typer and when I start answering your questions no one else have.

Kokopelli · Oct 18, 2007

Same here.

But really the fact that many answer only helps the thread's writer out. He is exposed to several different opinions and methods and so can decide for himself what's best rather then just follow the only available option.

susang · Oct 18, 2007

A few more questions:

1. How do i know if the snake is male or female?
2. How do i know how old it is? Is his length a good way of determining age?
3. What should I do for the next few days until i can get an UTH? Should I leave the heat lamp on 24/7, or turn it off at night. I would get the room temperature at night is around 70 degrees.
4. When i get the Under the tank heater, Should I put it on one side, and leave the water dish on the other side of the tank?
5. I have a hamster cage. Is this a suitable environment to raise a family of mice? Are mice the only feeding option, or can I try to breed gerbils, hamsters or rats? Are there any other live food options besides small vermin?

1. Yes you need to probe, but you might get an idea if you can get a photo of the ventral side vent to tail and a same view. You might get an educated guess but only a guess.

2. Age ??? It appears to me that snake is adult or close but again a pic with say a dollar bill next to it would help. If it is an adult ot even yearling that snake appears as if it could eat feeder size mice, again pics would help.

3. If it's a red heat light leave it on until you get the UTH.

4. Either side is fine but a good idea to put water on the other side.

5. No a hamster cage will not contain mice they will chew the plastic if it's that type and if it's wire chances are they can fit through the wire. You can feed mice, hamsters (spawn of the devil) or rats. A pair of mice would not be enough for 2 snakes I don't think. Also with 1.1 the male is always bothering the female.

Random8A · Oct 18, 2007

Agreed!

Between all of us, he will know what he needs to do! :crazy02:

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