Special bullsnake

[MaeglinCalaelen]

Today a special bullsnake hatched, but unfortunately it's secial in 2 way's.

Yesterday the first centimeters made me very happy (but something in me already knew it was not good, I didn't open a bottle of champagne for example), today the last centimeters made me very sad.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

That's sad, and very weird...
The first half looks very cool, though. Good luck getting others like him (minus the deformity) from the clutch.

 

[tstephe3]

Is that like a reallly bad kink or something? Or did his lower half not develop right?

I'm sorry he turned out like that.. The first half looks really good.

 

[mike17l]

That sux, that's a cool looking animal. Was this something new and not expected? or where you hoping for this pattern? Did it have any healthy clutch mates? any anomalies in them? any pics of them?

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

I've never seen a picture of a bullsnake with an similar pattern. So I gues it's something new. It sure was unexpected.

In this clutch there were only 2 healthy eggs, and the other one still have to hatch. I already had several clutches from this couple and never I had an animal with this pattern nor this anomalies.

I hope that once the parent produce another one like this one but without the deformity ofcourse.

 

[mike17l]

That's very interesting, I guess it definitely could have been incubation temperatures or something similar. Hopefully someday you can get another.

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

That's very interesting, I guess it definitely could have been incubation temperatures or something similar. Hopefully someday you can get another.

The snake layed in a weekend I wasn't at home so the eggs were dehydrated when I found them. Possibly this explains the large number of bad eggs and this abnormality

 

[KJUN]

I've seen that pattern in WC sister taxa, so I know it is possible. However, my gut feeling is regretfully that the deformity (where it fused back on itself or failed to separate correctly) and the pattern abnormailty are related tio the same environmental cause. I hope for you that it is genetic and you can reproduce it in a healthy animal, but I would be very surprised - pleasantly surprised, however - if that turned out to be possible.

Either way, sorry about the bad baby.
KJ

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

I've seen that pattern in WC sister taxa, so I know it is possible

I know it excist in other subspecies but never seen it in Sayi's before.

However, my gut feeling is regretfully that the deformity and the pattern abnormailty are related tio the same environmental cause.

I think it would be rather strange that it has such an effect on the pattern of the animal, that is disturbs the development of the young snake sound very acceptable, that it changes the pattern sounds more unlikely IMO

I hope for you that it is genetic and you can reproduce it in a healthy animal, but I would be very surprised - pleasantly surprised, however - if that turned out to be possible.

That's what I hope too offcourse, but the previous litters never contained a snake with a similar pattern.

Either way, sorry about the bad baby.
KJ

thnx

 

[KJUN]

that it changes the pattern sounds more unlikely IMO

Pattern anomolies due to environmental conditions (especially improper hydration and temperatures doing incubation -not counting chemicals like fertilizers, etc, of course) are well known to influnce the phenotype (both pattern and coloration) in other colubrids, so I'm not as convinced it is surprising in this case. Any time "the odd one just happens to be kinked, too" we need to think more of causation (or, at least, correlation) and less of just plain coincidence no matter how much we want it to be coincidence..... In some of the other subspecies that have popped up with similar patterns in wild animals, it hasn't been shown inheritable yet. I've always chalked it up to improper incubation in the wild, but that is pretty much an untestable hypothesis. Of course, there are some similar pattern mutations in western gophersnakes that are inheritable, but those tend to all be naturally occuring phenotypes in the wild.

Anyway, hope you make a bunch more of them - without the kinks - next year. Doesn't sound promising since you said the previous ones were normal, but fingers crossed for you that I get surprised!
KJ

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

Pattern anomolies due to environmental conditions (especially improper hydration and temperatures doing incubation -not counting chemicals like fertilizers, etc, of course) are well known to influnce the phenotype (both pattern and coloration) in other colubrids, so I'm not as convinced it is surprising in this case.

thats something I didn't knew.

Any time "the odd one just happens to be kinked, too" we need to think more of causation (or, at least, correlation) and less of just plain coincidence no matter how much we want it to be coincidence.....
KJ

That's what I fear, that it isn't a coincidence. I hope it, but I'm defenetly not sure about that

Of course, there are some similar pattern mutations in western gophersnakes that are inheritable

That's why I think it could possibly be genetic. But this is more a case of wishfull thinking

Anyway, hope you make a bunch more of them - without the kinks - next year. Doesn't sound promising since you said the previous ones were normal, but fingers crossed for you that I get surprised!
KJ

I'll be glad to surprise you.

 

[Allison]

Aww shame, that is an incredible pattern. Good luck with your future hatchlings.

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

Weird things happening here: another young with another strange pattern

Fingers crossed

 

[mike17l]

Good luck, hopefully it will be healthy. But, being that both offspring have a different pattern, and this pair has never produced this pattern before, it is most likely environmental. Hopefully not, and if the one hatching is healthy, I would eventually breed it back to a parent and/or siblings, to find out. Good luck.

 

[MaeglinCalaelen]

being that both offspring have a different pattern, and this pair has never produced this pattern before, it is most likely environmental

that's exactly what I think.



But I will be very happy if it's healthy. It would be nice if I can reproduce it, but if not, I still have an unique snake