Starting from normal~~~~~~~:~

[PSYCOSNAKEMOM]

Ok, so I am past panic and Spencer has 16 new babes, four are almost done pipping, about another hour or two.

Cornelius is the mom I believe she is an Amelanistic, from the pics on the site and Kathy's book she looks like a Albino Okeetee. This was his first snake and we bought her at Petco. We lucked out, she is marvelous, (but that's another story) I let him "borrow" Merlin my Miami Phase, as the dad.

The babes are: Two Amels and 14 WHAT???

Are they for sure Miami Phase and what does that mean any how? I mean as far as genetics.
Merlin has no grey at all the way Kathy's book describes a Miami Phase, in fact he, Merlin looks very simular to a $10.00 normal that a friend of mind picked up at a herp show.

I would like to know what to call them, and I would like to know what makes up a normal, genetically speaking. Why do they pop up in clutches without normal parents, or do they?

For a long time we thought that Sauron was a normal because we posted a pic on the site and that's what someone said, then we found out that he is an Okeetee.

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks for helping with our learning process. Sam ~~~~~~~:~

 

[pinatamonkey]

You have amel babies and normal babies het amel. When they are babies, it is difficult to tell if they will make the 'miami phase' cut or not. If they have very, very little orange (think none, ideally) in the background, they may. If the mom looks reverse okeetee with a lot of orange in the background they probably won't be 'miami', but only time will tell.

Why do normals pop up in non-normal breedings?

If both parents do not share the same recessive genes (one's anery and the other amel) you'll get normals het for those genes.
In cases where you have selectivly-bred morphs (miami, okeetee (and the albino variants), breeding to a snake that does not share the same characteristics (thin bordered snake x okeetee) will mix the characteristics of both and 'water down' the traits of the selectively bred morph, so they will probably fall somewhere inbetween the two parents, and may not have strong enough traits to be considered a morph - thus a normal. The latter example will not be het anything, since okeetee is not a specific gene or gene combination - so you can't reliably reproduce the okeetee look by crossing the offspring.

What makes up a normal? (appearence-wise)

Well, in terms of traditional recessive morphs, a normal is a snake that does not have 2 copies of the same recessive gene.

Normal describes pretty much any snake that we haven't labeled specifically - so a 'normal' corn can vary widely in appearance.

To be considered 'non-normal', I feel a snake should be significanly different from the 'average' corn, or have a trait that is passed on reliably from generation to generation (whether it be recessive, codominant, or dominant)

If many generations have been spent achieving a certain 'look', like candycane and miami, they are probably no longer normal: the odds of producing a snake that fits the description of candycane from 2 fairly average amels is slim.

Although miamis and okeetees are 'genetically normal', and candycanes and reverse okeetees are 'genetically amel', which just means if you outcross them, you won't recover the look in any sort of on/off percentile

 

[PSYCOSNAKEMOM]

Ok so then ~~~~~~~:~

Now keeping in mind that these babes are only two days old. Yes some of them have NO orange, you know that little orange dot. And all are either brown and black or grey and black, the black being the saddles that I understand would turn orange.

The amels have no white in them (yet)

The one fact I feel pretty sure about is that both parents must have an amel gene or Spencer wouldn't have gotten any amels at all, is that right?

So in order to be a Miami Phase, do you have to carry an amel gene? Is this part of what makes one a Miami Phase?

Do all these normals have an amel gene or no, like a % of them? I know you said het for amel but does that mean all of them?

Mom, Cornelius has a lot of white in her, she has dark orange saddles trimed in white with the light orange/yellow background? What do they call that body part of the snake?

Remember we got her at Petco, others with her were snows? or normals It's one of those who knows. Apparently we didn't even think of it at the time.

Dad, Merlin was sold as a Miami Phase, he has orange saddles trimed in black with a light brown backgroung, body He has no grey or silver in him at all. Could he really be a normal het for Miami Phase, can anyone be THAT. I'm just going by Kathy's book that says Miami Phases have silver/grey. I'm going now to see what Rich says. Thanks so much for your help. I'm determined to get an understanding of this. Sam ~~~~~~:~

 

[CornCrazy]

If one of the parents was an amel, then ALL of the normals will be het amel because the amel parent can ONLY pass an amel gene on to the babies. If the amel parent was possible het something else (like anery if she had snow brothers and sisters), then it is possible that she passed that gene on as well to half of the babies. The only way for you to know if she is het anery, though, is by breeding her to an anery or at least to another snake which is het anery.

Good luck figuring all of this genetics stuff out. I still have difficulty with it )