Steppe Lizards.....

[osiris2013]

Hey Guys, I know this isnt a corn snake topic but you all have been so wonderful and help in the past that I figured I would turn to you guys first. I still havent gotten a new snake since osiris died. Only cause my wife is still freaking out eveytime i mention it. She is still afraid of em. But anyways.... I am trying to convince her to let me get a Steppe Runner Lizard. Does anyone on here have one? I am trying to find out if you can feed them dead (store bought) crickets? or the can o' crickets? I read online they will eat from you hands and i seen a video where they are eating from feeder thongs but they crickets are alive. And that is something my wife dont want is live crickets. Hope you all can help. tks in advance.

 

[TyeW]

I don't believe they would eat dead crickets. They are insectivores and eat live prey.

 

[Nanci]

Uromastix don't eat insects...

 

[Floof]

Wouldn't advise feeding the dead (canned/freeze dried) insects. Best to stick with fresh prey. Anyway, the odds of them taking dead prey are not good--insectivores are generally wired to go for movement.

There are some great reptiles that don't require insects. Nanci mentioned Uromastyx, of which there are a few different species (subspecies?). They're herbivores. No bugs, just greens/veggies.

(On a side note... OMG, Steppe Runners are so cute! Never really looked at them closely until now (actually, purposely avoided it)... Argh. Last thing I need is another diurnal lizard on my wishlist!! lol)

 

[Chip]

Not to go too nerdy, but read up on the indigenous people of the steppe region. Here's a great audio telling of them, it's worth the two bucks. http://dancarlin.com/dccart/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=138
If anyone buys it and doesn't think it is, I'll mail them two dollars.

 

[xStaticSnow]

If you're looking for a lizard that doesn't need to eat live crickets I would suggest both a crested gecko (stays small - arboreal lizard that eats prepackaged powdered food) or a blue tongue skink (grows up to 2 feet, but are extremely docile, friendly, and very intelligent - almost dog like lizards). I own both and love them each for different reasons.

Crested geckos are probably one of the easiest lizards to take care of. They don't usually need any form of heating because they thrive at room temperatures. Like I said they can live happily eating only a powdered meal replacement food... you just mix it with water and they lap it up. They stay small - about the size of your hand when full grown, so they don't need HUGE enclosures like some other reptiles.

Blue tongue skinks eat a variety of vegetables, fruit, and meat products. You can feed high quality dog food as a good staple protein source and also mix in some fresh greens like kale, dandelions, mustard greens, etc. They also love fruit like bananas and mango. As adults they only have to eat about 1 to 2 times a week and they don't eat a ton in one sitting so feeding them isn't too expensive. Because these lizards do get to be a good size (not giant though) they need larger enclosures and a basking spot into the 90s. Otherwise they are very simple to take care of and very rewarding animals!

I started out 100% as a snake girl, but now I'm finding more and more lizard species to be wonderful and engaging pets. Good luck!

 

[TyeW]

I agree that a crested gecko would be great, but I would have to disagree with your argument for blue tongue skinks.. There is much debate around using cat/dog food to feed your lizard and I prefer to avoid it. They don't eat dog/cat food in the wild. While 50% of their diet is made up of fresh greens, 40% should be meat. Since meat is such a huge factor, I think it is essential to offer much variety (ie. crickets, roaches, superworms, hornworms, silkworms, pinky/fuzzy mouse... not just cat/dog food). I feed mine every 3 days. They are great animals to keep and have lots of personality.

A uromastyx would be a great larger lizard. I would recommend a gargoyle or chahoua gecko for a smaller lizard. They are really neat and similar to crested geckos. You could also get a tortoise.

 

[xStaticSnow]

Blue tongues also don't eat collard greens, winter squash, green beens, ground beef, etc. in the wild either, but many people have raised and kept generations of these lizards on such diets. If you get a high quality dog food it's basically just meat, broth, pea protein, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc. all things that are commonly fed to blue tongue skinks.

I mean dogs (wolves) don't eat dog food in the wild do they? But it's the same basic nutrients and as long as you feed a balanced and varied diet the animals do great.

I mentioned dog food as a staple protein source (not cat food - it lacks the non-meat ingredients that omnivores require) but I highly support feeding other varied protein sources/meats too as snacks or swapped out for dog food in alternate feedings. The problem is that most other protein sources do not include enough bone/shell/calcium/organ tissue ingredients (like beef, chicken, etc) and the animals can suffer from nutrient deficiencies.

If we are going to be concerned about animals eating a natural diet that would be found in the wild, then feeding cresties and gargoyles Repashy diet would be considered just as bad as feeding a prebalanced healthy, high quality dog food to a blue tongue, IMHO.

Uromastyx are great lizards but present their own challenges such as maintaining high basking spot temps if you live in an area with a cooler climate.

 

[Nanci]

I'm glad I have a nice cage for my uro, so the basking spot is easy. It has a lowered, wire mesh spot for the light, in the ceiling. Then I just had to build up his cave to the appropriate height, and then further adjust with bulb wattage. And I really feel safe leaving it unattended, unlike a bulb in a lamp clamp.

 

[Floof]

Re: dog food, I don't have a BTS yet... But my one dilemma with fresh foods VS can foods argument is that, sure, a high quality canned diet consists of many of the same things we'd feed fresh... But in a cooked form, which does kill certain nutrients.

 

[xStaticSnow]

It is recommended to cook most fresh meats before serving them to a blue tongue skink anyway they get plenty of nutrients from a balanced diet that includes cooked and can foods.

 

[Floof]

I have read that, due to bacteria concerns IIRC? I'm reminded of raw dog food philosophies. Cooking doesn't just kill bad bacteria, but the good (and naturally occurring enzymes), as well. Actually, one of the things that's been rolling around my head the last 6 months is whether you could use commercial raw dog food in place of canned for a skink. I certainly see the benefits of rotating in cans, for a greater variety in a convenient form. Raw would give you that in an uncooked form.

 

[xStaticSnow]

Yeah I think a lot of people buy a variety of different high quality dog food brands for their skinks...Even one single brand will offer a variety of different meat options. For example blue buffalo has I think beef, chicken, turkey, lamb maybe, etc. and then if you rotate that with some other totally different brands you would get a lot of variety.

The raw dog food is probably an excellent idea too... I just know that especially raw poultry made for human consumption has very high levels of bacteria and some consider it dangerous to both the skink and the owners who are handling the skink (after eating the poultry) and cleaning up skink feces.

Cooking does definitely destroy nutrients, proteins, etc. in foods, but IMO skinks, dogs, and humans do not suffer from any deficiencies as long as a varied and balanced diet it maintained.

 

[TyeW]

Blue tongues also don't eat collard greens, winter squash, green beens, ground beef, etc. in the wild either, but many people have raised and kept generations of these lizards on such diets. If you get a high quality dog food it's basically just meat, broth, pea protein, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc. all things that are commonly fed to blue tongue skinks. .

I understand this argument, but I still feel like fresh foods are a healthier option. I've also never fed my skink broth, pea protein, carrots, or sweet potatoes before..

I mean dogs (wolves) don't eat dog food in the wild do they? But it's the same basic nutrients and as long as you feed a balanced and varied diet the animals do great.

This is what I was saying earlier. I don't see how you can have a "varied diet" feeding canned dog food as a sole protein source.

I mentioned dog food as a staple protein source (not cat food - it lacks the non-meat ingredients that omnivores require) but I highly support feeding other varied protein sources/meats too as snacks or swapped out for dog food in alternate feedings. The problem is that most other protein sources do not include enough bone/shell/calcium/organ tissue ingredients (like beef, chicken, etc) and the animals can suffer from nutrient deficiencies.

I have heard the exact opposite. A local breeder here has been breeding blue tongues and monkey tails for years and swears by high-quality cat food and says to stay away from dog food.

As for crested and gargoyle geckos, I'm not certain because I don't keep these animals, but many many breeders swear by repashy or clark's powdered formulas. Many breeders swear by canned cat/dog food for blue tongues and have had great success as well.

 

[Floof]

The raw dog food is probably an excellent idea too... I just know that especially raw poultry made for human consumption has very high levels of bacteria and some consider it dangerous to both the skink and the owners who are handling the skink (after eating the poultry) and cleaning up skink feces.

Yes, this is an excellent point. We go over this same thing with customers at work on a regular basis. A common question when we introduce people to raw is "Well, can't I just feed raw chicken from the supermarket then?" Of course not! Since the meat at the grocery store is meant to be cooked, there's something like a 15% allowance for bad bacteria. Ack! Since raw dog food is intended to be prepared and fed RAW, there's a 0% tolerance for bad bacteria.

Thank you for the enlightening conversation. I appreciate the info.

And yes.. If you make an effort to rotate, there is a lot of variety to be had in protein sources.