Strawberry..more then just recessive?!

[The_Saiyajin]

So here I am again....
I have tried to get as many new informations about strawberry as I could find and all I find is what I already knew.
Strawberry is sharing the same locus then Hypo.
And that is, what I believe wrong OR at least not all.

I am saying that the strawberry trait is a dominant or codomiant mutation. Not for sure, but I will tell and show you why I think so.... and as far as I know, I am not the only one:

So my good friend Petra K. bred her two JMG Coral Ghosts het Amel together, and got a big variety of colourations in 5 Anerylike morphs and 5 Snowlike morphs. Ok this could be expected, coz maybe some are hypo strawberrys, some are strawberrys...

Yesterday her second clutch started to hatch.
JMG Coral Ghost het Amel * Tessera het Amel (as far as I know, there is NO hypo involved in this girl).
THe first hatchling already let us think there is something wrong with it. It was an extremly pink tessera with no black.
Today 4 more put their noses out and there where 1 classic, 1 amel, one tessera and one pink little worm, who looked like the tessera, at least the little head you could see.
I am terribly sorry, that I cannot provide you pics of all, but I have pics of the tessera and the normal classic.

So how can that be? I have heard from other pairings, that there also hatched some really pink snakes out of Coral lines. Nearly 50%. Its all an indicator for a dominant trait. Maybe even codominant, coz the variability is so big, that there maybe could be a super form?! I say it again, those are only my thoughts and of course one clutch doesnt say a word, but I wanted to share with you guys and I want your opinion in this case.

BTW Gratz Petra for maybe the first strawberry tessera, as far as I know worldwide.

Please Enjoy the pics and post your thoughts on this. I will post more pics as far as I have more .

Greetings
Chris

 

[chris68]

I'm not sure JMG's corals are proven to be strawberry Chris...Welcome to the party, a lot of test breedings, crosses with the various Coral, Neon, Champagne lines etc are being done to try and find out what exactly makes them "pink"...Maybe it's a "red factor" and we're seeing it on that Tessera :shrugs: Thats the first cross on here I've with a JMG line coral to a "normal" colored corn, that's a very interesting result...

Beautiful snakes btw, grat Petra :cheers:

 

[Palmetto Reptiles]

Maybe Jim can post the pics tomorrow, but we have a 2011 anery tessera exhibiting a good deal of pink. That cross was a salmon snow (jmg) x tessera het snow I think.

This year I bred a JMG salmon snow to a wc Marion county corn with the intentions of keeping 2.2 for breeding test just to "prove" what is and isn't in there. I have 17 eggs due to hatch soon from that one so maybe we will or will not see some color variance in the f1 "neutral" clutch.

dc

 

[Jaded_Heart]

So iansvivarium has Salmon Snow listed as "amel anery STRAWBERRY"
Coral snow listed as "amel anery HYPO"
And all the others are classified under "selectively bred" meaniny genetically amel/anery simply bred to be more this shade or that.

I do wish we would eventually get a solid answer on all this "red coat / red factor / strawberry" confusion lol. But I suppose it helps at least to have a point of reference like iansvivarium up and running

 

[AliCat37]

I'm not too involved with genetics and everything, but I thought that with some lines there were lots of different mutations that involve pink.. like in the "specters" that has proven to not be strawberry. All I can say is HOLY COW THOSE KIDS HAVE A LOT OF PINK AND I WANT. Congrats on the awesome hatchlings!

 

[dave partington]

Strawberry is sharing the same locus then Hypo.
And that is, what I believe wrong OR at least not all.
Greetings
Chris

Sometimes it shares hypo.
Sometimes not.

Can you hatch a strawberry
Which is only a strawberry
from a JMG Coral Ghost X JMG Coral Ghost?

No.

You can hatch amel, anery, hypo a, & combinations of those...
Rarely a normal color wild-type.
If the parents are of vivid color:
Most of the hatchlings will be a vivid coral, salmon, pink, magenta, peach etc. color.

You get a cookie.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[5 Star Serpents]

The KEY part in your post is "as far as I know". The simple fact of it is hypo is a VERY common gene, and unless you can trace it back MANY generations you can't prove that it doesn't.
A simple example of this is a friend had a breeding pair of candy canes, normal pattern, NO known motley and/or stripe gene in the history. The first 3 years they were paired, each year yielded an original AND second clutch in the pairing, the 4 th year, first clutch resulted in 2 motley babies, second clutch resulted in 2 more. All pairings since have resulted in no more motleys.
So, that just goes to show how sneaky some genes can be and that sometimes it's simply getting really lucky that a gene does show up.
That being said, my JMG coral ghost male to a ghost female resulted in 2 full clutches of pink babies! Not a single one didn't color up, so to say it's dominant over the hypo gene, yes, but I do believe it needs to be there for it to work, IMO. I guess I will see more when I breed him to my butter mot next yr

 

[5 Star Serpents]

A simple example of this is a friend had a breeding pair of candy canes, normal pattern, NO known motley and/or stripe gene in the history. The first 3 years they were paired, each year yielded an original AND second clutch in the pairing, the 4 th year, first clutch resulted in 2 motley babies, second clutch resulted in 2 more. All pairings since have resulted in no more motleys.

Meant to note that in the first 3 yrs (6 clutches) there we NO motley and/or stripe babies at all, 4th yr both clutches produced some, and now no more have been produced. All from the exact same pair.

 

[ceduke]

My Coral snow is from SMR and is NOT homozygous hypo.

 

[The_Saiyajin]

Well we will of course test the Tessera on the possibility to te het for Hypo A BUT I have heard from others, that they got also some results of other coral ghost lines like from Don, where 50% pinkish animals hatched without having hypo involved in both parents.
We are just at the beginning here and maybe there are more then one gen, we will find at the and, maybe there will be a codominant to hypo trait and maybe there will also a dominant or even codominant gen.
I can post pics of the other animals this evening.
Thanks for your opinions and please continue this threat.

Greetings
Chris

 

[ecreipeoj]

I have bred Strawberries enough now to know they are not dominant or co-dominant. They are recessive just like Hypo is. I have hatched out over 10 clutches of them now and nothing even remotely indicates dominant or co-dominant.

It does sound like the possibility of a dominant type gene in you mix. It doesn't have to be Strawberry. Jim did say that he bred his "Extremes" into his Coral/Salmon line.

Have you checked out his Extremes? They look like RedCoats to me, but they could be some other kind of dominant or co-dominant gene. I could certainly see an Extreme Snow being very PINK.

Testing Corals out to other pink Snow won't test them out much. It will just bring up more questions. The Corals/Salmons need to be bred to something that produces Normals and then when Corals are recovered from them, we should see all of its parts in the mix of hatchlings.

Your first breeding to a Tess is a start, which seems to show some other dominant gene in the mix other than Tessera. When you breed Tess het Coral x Coral again, it should reveal Jim's Coral/Salmon recipe..

 

[Palmetto Reptiles]

I have bred Strawberries enough now to know they are not dominant or co-dominant. They are recessive just like Hypo is. I have hatched out over 10 clutches of them now and nothing even remotely indicates dominant or co-dominant.

It does sound like the possibility of a dominant type gene in you mix. It doesn't have to be Strawberry. Jim did say that he bred his "Extremes" into his Coral/Salmon line.

Have you checked out his Extremes? They look like RedCoats to me, but they could be some other kind of dominant or co-dominant gene. I could certainly see an Extreme Snow being very PINK.

Testing Corals out to other pink Snow won't test them out much. It will just bring up more questions. The Corals/Salmons need to be bred to something that produces Normals and then when Corals are recovered from them, we should see all of its parts in the mix of hatchlings.

Your first breeding to a Tess is a start, which seems to show some other dominant gene in the mix other than Tessera. When you breed Tess het Coral x Coral again, it should reveal Jim's Coral/Salmon recipe..

When you breed coral ghosts (CG) x CG or Salmon Snow (SS) x SS, you don't always produce an entire clutch resembling the parents. Ie. you can breed a weak pair and get a few babies that are a little better than mom and dad. SO, that said, wouldn't it suggest that alot of what we are seing with the JMG line is line breeding also? I am not knocking SMR CG's, but he and Jeff obtained their stock from the same place and at the same time I think. Look at the difference in their lines. Jeff's by far are the superior CG out there from what I have seen in pics and in person. The only other option in their difference is if possibly Jeff obtained animals with Jim's extreeme hypo gene and Don didn't. Even so, Jeff's have improved markedly over 15 years so I think line breeding has alot to do with that line.

Hopefully that dribble makes sense, if not oh well, it made sense to me I guess.

dc

 

[The_Saiyajin]

Thanks for your thoughts.
I just want to say again, I dont want to claim anything, but I am really curious
Here is a bad pic from the owner of a tessera sibling.
The color is nealry the real one. So the difference is enourmious.

Greetings
Chris

 

[JimGERcream]

I'd bet it's something like this:

both normals het hypo kastanie, all 25 clutchmates looked pretty much the same except one female...

It's a big difference but she's still just a normal.

the bright female with a female clutchmate for comparison

 

[The_Saiyajin]

Yeah Stephan, its a really cool difference. I also loved your diffused some years ago, which where like a ghost diffused and morphed with every shed.

Its not that I thought from the beginning, also did my wife, it might be something different.
I saw that pink tessera on a picture and thought the same as you. That this may be a really light classic.
ANd maybe it is.
But this colouration, this pink coloration isn t just totally different then any other animal i saw before.
I will send you pictures of the post shed animal as fast as it is and I can

Also I want to add, that I dont hope to discover someting new. It it Petra who bred this and she has the parents and the clutch. I am just a friend who want to help her getting answers to her questions. This is not my projekt, not my discovery, not anything else, its just an animal, which looks a bit different and which MAYBE is something new, maybe not. I dont want
fame!

But itsnt this the fun in our hobby guys?

 

[chris68]

It's frustratingly fun

 

[dave partington]

It's frustratingly fun

yes it is, like refraining from further comments for another decade.

 

[The_Saiyajin]

hey guys.
Here are some new pics of the Tesseras after the first shed.
Still interesting stuff indeed.
What you think?
Pics were made by Petra.

Greetings
Chris