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"T Plus" corn snake
- Thread starter ivenner
- Start date
Tyrosinase is the enzyme that catalyses the first two steps in the biochemical assembly line that produces black pigment. A T-negative albino lacks black pigment because its tyrosinase enzyme cannot catalyse those steps. Amelanistic corn snakes do not have functional tyrosinase (it's been tested). So they are T-negative albinos.
Strictly speaking, a T-positive albino also lacks black pigment and often cannot be distinguished from a T-negative albino by just looking at them. In such snakes, the biochemical cause of the condition has nothing to do with tyrosinase. Using this definition, there is no T-positive albino corn snake.
Broadly speaking, a T-positive albino is any snake that has less black pigment than normal. Using this definition, ultra, hypo, lavender, lava, sunkissed, and maybe one or two other types of corn snakes are T-positive albinos. In my opinion, this definition is so broad that it is useless.
Without knowing which mutant was in the photos, I can't help further. Good luck.
Strictly speaking, a T-positive albino also lacks black pigment and often cannot be distinguished from a T-negative albino by just looking at them. In such snakes, the biochemical cause of the condition has nothing to do with tyrosinase. Using this definition, there is no T-positive albino corn snake.
Broadly speaking, a T-positive albino is any snake that has less black pigment than normal. Using this definition, ultra, hypo, lavender, lava, sunkissed, and maybe one or two other types of corn snakes are T-positive albinos. In my opinion, this definition is so broad that it is useless.
Without knowing which mutant was in the photos, I can't help further. Good luck.
ivenner
Father of the Snakist
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Something doesn't look right about those snakes. Just the fact that they are calling one a T+ albino and the other a het amel says something. I'm suspicious that they may be hybrids as I think some of the other rat snakes do have a T+ albino. Thew sort of look like ultramels, possibly het caramel due to the increased yellowness, but if they are, why not call them that? And the head color and pattern doesn't sit well with me either.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Unless it's screamingly obvious (milk and king crosses), I really really hesitate to judge hybrids via pictures, but I have to agree with Susan. I'd personally make the choice not to purchase those animals as pure corns unless there was an extremely reputable lineage of ownership to follow.
As for the question regarding T+ . . . there's a number of lively discussions around here regarding this topic. Can't search T+, but they should be in the genetics section for sure.
D80
As for the question regarding T+ . . . there's a number of lively discussions around here regarding this topic. Can't search T+, but they should be in the genetics section for sure.
D80
Silvergrin
New member
Huh, so ultramel might be called T+ albino?
I don't know about that... "albino" says to me it lacks black pigment. Ultramel has some. Considering it's an allele of standard amel, or T- albino, I'm pretty sure the ultra gene is just a slightly-more-functional version of the defective Tyrosinase enzyme, but not nearly as functional as the wild-type enzyme.
You'd think a T+ albino would be albino without the Tyrosinase enzyme being affected at all, but maybe that's not the accepted nomenclature?
I don't know about that... "albino" says to me it lacks black pigment. Ultramel has some. Considering it's an allele of standard amel, or T- albino, I'm pretty sure the ultra gene is just a slightly-more-functional version of the defective Tyrosinase enzyme, but not nearly as functional as the wild-type enzyme.
You'd think a T+ albino would be albino without the Tyrosinase enzyme being affected at all, but maybe that's not the accepted nomenclature?
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
I have absolutely no idea if ultra can be even remotely related to T+ albinism or not. I'm just looking at the colors of the snakes posted and saying that the closest recognized corn morph that resembles them , IMO, are ultramels. T+ and T- are not what I am accustomed in using in corn snakes. I have heard them used in other snake species as a form of albinism, but other than that, including exactly how they work and look, is not amongst my expertise. Just the idea that someone is using those terms when talking about corn snakes sends up a red flag to me personally and simply has me questioning those snakes.
Silvergrin
New member
Ah, I should clarify, I didn't think you were saying that ultramel could technically be considered T+ albino. I read the T+ debate linked to by 98kingm and KJUN said ultras were originally called T+ albino by folks who didn't know better. Just chipping in that while Ultras are probably technically T+ (I haven't tested, just a guess), and some might consider them to be sort of "albino" I don't think they count as T+ albinos
I totally agree that I find any claims of T+ albino corns fishy. Either they've imported a known T+ gene from another species (by which I mean, it's a hyrbid) or you'd think they'd have a lot of detail about the new cornsnake gene they discovered and how they proved it was T+ and all
... anyone know where those photos came from? I'd love to poke around their site.
Ah, I should clarify, I didn't think you were saying that ultramel could technically be considered T+ albino. I read the T+ debate linked to by 98kingm and KJUN said ultras were originally called T+ albino by folks who didn't know better. Just chipping in that while Ultras are probably technically T+ (I haven't tested, just a guess), and some might consider them to be sort of "albino" I don't think they count as T+ albinos
I totally agree that I find any claims of T+ albino corns fishy. Either they've imported a known T+ gene from another species (by which I mean, it's a hyrbid) or you'd think they'd have a lot of detail about the new cornsnake gene they discovered and how they proved it was T+ and all
... anyone know where those photos came from? I'd love to poke around their site.
Yes they came from www.crystalpalacereptiles.com
Silvergrin
New member
Humm, UK folk. I suppose it's possible they could have something else going on: at least they claim it's not allelic with normal amel, considering you can get a T+ albino het amel!
Most of the morphs look proper... they have creamsicles in their cornsnake list but they're species is listed as "Pantherophis sp" rather than "Pantherophis guttatus" like everything else.
On the other hand, I can't find ANY info on a new European albino cornsnake gene.
Hmmm.
Most of the morphs look proper... they have creamsicles in their cornsnake list but they're species is listed as "Pantherophis sp" rather than "Pantherophis guttatus" like everything else.
On the other hand, I can't find ANY info on a new European albino cornsnake gene.
Hmmm.
But if you breed an Ultramel to an Amel you'll get some Amel offspring... they're also "het amel".
And the pattern/colours... well, something about them says grey ratsnake to me.
As far as I know, Silvergrin is right about ultra and the tyrosinase enzyme.
In the black rat snake, a T+ albino is an albino (no black pigment) without an affected tyrosinase enzyme. Some other enzyme is defective, but nobody has worked out which one. On the other hand, in boa constrictors, a T+ albino has some black pigment. As there is black pigment, the assumption is that the tyrosinase enzyme is functional. So you practically have to ask what snake is under discussion to make sense of what is being said. :awcrap:
Silvergrin
New member
XD true true, though it's not what most people would think when you combine "T+ albino" and "het amel"
... especially when you put the same photo for both genotypes, indicating the phenotype is the same...