tank too big?

[pretzel.snake]

Right now I have my baby in a 30" x 12" x 12.5" tank, but I was thinking about getting something bigger, as 1. she is about 36" and continuing to grow, 2. I'm not able to fit the right size water bowl and hides in the tank, and 3. I don't like the style of the lid, and would rather have something that opens from the front.

I found a tank online that is 36" x 18" x 18" and I am extremely interested, but I'm wondering if it's too big. Will the size stress her out? or can I fill it with accessories to make her more comfortable?

 

[HerpsOfNM]

viewing from a wild standpoint, no that is not too big and shouldn't stress her out. My herp room is 16x13 ft, and in all honesty would probably be adequate from a wild standpoint to house 2 corns. Larger caging usually facilitates more variety of behaviors, as well as providing better thermal gradients. 30x12x12 is roughly a 20 gallon long, 36x18x18 is a 40 gallon.

I have a 17 year old tokay gecko that lives in a 90 gallon tank. He's maybe 14 inches, his 90 gallon is 48x18x22 if I recall. He uses every inch of that tank.

Your only stress will be of initial setup and new odors, but that will/should be mitigated by using current hides and accessories that have familiar smells.

 

[hypnoctopus]

I don't believe in "too big" honestly. As long as you add enough hides that the larger size doesn't feel open and unsafe to her, I think she would enjoy the bigger area. Also, I have two front opening tanks and I love them.

 

[DLena]

I agree with everything stated by HerpsOFNM and Hypnoctopus. Sometimes it makes finding my 58 gram squiggle a bit of a challenge LOL but she adores tunneling through the aspen (I see all the entrance and exit holes...totally cute) and I have bunches of vines suction cupped everywhere and hanging down. They provide coverage in the more open areas of the tank and let her climb all over the place. ONE CONCERN: make sure it is escape-proofed for a little one. Most companies assume a larger cage is for a larger snake... For example, I have the black, stackable Neodesha cages and the gasket area of the sliding glass front, at the top, is actually large enough for her to squish out through! I folded cardboard and wedged it in up there and no more of that! Other cage styles have wire holes and someone suggested using those foam rubber ear plugs to take up the extra hole space. I use that with my rack tub. (I bought a bag of them at Gander Mtn but I've seen them other places.)

 

[pretzel.snake]

okay thank you! I will be getting the tank and posting pics of her new set up soon!

 

[KaylaEliuk]

okay thank you! I will be getting the tank and posting pics of her new set up soon!

She will love it! I set up mine in a tank roughly that suze straight from a 10g. He didn't even NEED an upgrade yet at that size. I just gave him a bunch of hides and vines and things. He loves it, and started burrowing under the aspen! I find that they are more active and fun to watch when they are in a bigger enclosure!

Excited to see how she likes it.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

 

[born2slither]

My herp room is 16x13 ft

My god, pics plz?

 

[Giga]

I don't think there's such a thing as 'too big' there's only 'not enough cover'. As long as you have plenty of hides, foliage (fake or otherwise) and other forms of cover, she should be fine.

Besides, the tank isn't that big compared to her; in fact she already the same length as it! I put my male into his 4' viv when he was about 2' long with no issues whatsoever.

 

[axis1]

I would bet dollars to donuts that whoever says an enclosure is TOO BIG for a snake is someone who either has their own in a shoebox or an enclosure that is way too small for that particular snake. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.

Just sayin'.

Not tryin' to start any sh*%, but I'm just wondering how come those huge breeders (like the ones on Snake Bytes TV) always pull out a drawer in their rack system and regardless of the snake's size, it is cooped up in this small container where it can't even stretch out at least HALF its length! :eek1:

Does anyone know if the poor sneaky ones spend their entire lives in that little enclosure?

 

[Dragonling]

Many breeders use 28qt tubs for adult racks seemingly without issue. Having temporarily kept a nearly-yearling-sized snake in both a 6qt and a 32qt tub, it appears those in smaller spaces tend to move around a lot less, though this could also be due to individual temperaments. I saw less trails through the substrate in the 6qt, and generally found them in the exact same spot frequently in the same position over several days. In the 32qt, I saw deep furrows throughout the substrate, as though it had covered every inch of the floor during the night, even though it generally was in the same place during the day. Still, I don't think there's any known correlation between size of cage and life span. Breeders who keep snakes in smaller tubs still seem to have them live to their mid 20s and beyond. Could be a testament to their overall hardiness?

 

[axis1]

. . . Breeders who keep snakes in smaller tubs still seem to have them live to their mid 20s and beyond. Could be a testament to their overall hardiness?

Could also be that what they don't know won't hurt them, but since they can't speak, I would prefer to ensure that the quality of life of the snakes I have is always as high as possible. Just as those of us who tell newbies or those who simply don't know any better that if they can't afford to separate each snake they have, that they shouldn't have more than one, the same thing should apply to those of us who have multiple snakes but who can't afford to give our little sneaky ones the room appropriate enough for their size. How could a 6 or even a 32 qt enclosure satisfy a full-grown corn snake of even modest proportions, like my Lilly who's just over 3 feet long?

Do you think that even a 32 qt enclosure, based upon what you said, is enough space for your corn who is no longer a yearling?

Thanx for the info on breeders, as that looks about to be the case of the tubs in the racks at Snake Bytes TV, though I hope that a snake doesn't live in those close-quarters for anywhere NEAR 20 years! (Guess I have to research the issue further).

But thanx for the response, in addition to your honesty!!

 

[Dragonling]

Considering snakes spend a large chunk of their time holed up in as cramped a space as they can squeeze into to prevent predators from being able to come in after them, I'd say a 32qt is probably better than you might think. Ball pythons in particular seem to thrive in smaller tubs vs. large enclosures, partially because of the ease of maintaining humidity, but also because that's just the kind of place we find them in in the wild.

We often imagine it would be terrible to never be able to stretch out the entire length of one's body, but for humans we only bend in a couple of places anyway so we can't necessarily compare to snakes, who can stretch any given part of their body out whenever they feel like it even in an undersized tub. Who's to say they even have the desire to fully stretch out? I certainly don't see mine do that when they're out on the floor.

 

[axis1]

Considering snakes spend a large chunk of their time holed up in as cramped a space as they can squeeze into to prevent predators from being able to come in after them, I'd say a 32qt is probably better than you might think. Ball pythons in particular seem to thrive in smaller tubs vs. large enclosures, partially because of the ease of maintaining humidity, but also because that's just the kind of place we find them in in the wild.

We often imagine it would be terrible to never be able to stretch out the entire length of one's body, but for humans we only bend in a couple of places anyway so we can't necessarily compare to snakes, who can stretch any given part of their body out whenever they feel like it even in an undersized tub. Who's to say they even have the desire to fully stretch out? I certainly don't see mine do that when they're out on the floor.

I hear what you're saying. As a matter of fact, I am also LISTENING, because I really would LOVE to resolve this issue with my own interrogatingly inquisitive conscience, which argues the other side of the coin incessantly. I would suppose that the only way I would ever be satisfied beyond seeing some empirical research and data supporting an argument either way is to observe several different species of snakes for a significant period of time, one that spans several seasons during the times of the day & night that they are normally active, which would require a great deal of resources in both manpower and materials. Because, with the relatively small sample of corn snakes in my possession, and the amount of time they ALL spend surfing the perimeters of their obsessively detailed enclosures with specifically-set temperature gradients tweaked to meet their specific biological requirements, every single one of them with multiple and sufficient hiding places on at least two sides of those climate-controlled enclosures, I just can't imagine the same animals being forced to accept the constraints of some shoebox-sized enclosure where they wouldn't even be able to stretch out enough to breath normally during the very basic need of exercising or seeking an area that is appropriately cooler or warmer during one of the times when they may need to thermo-regulate their bodies.

You may be right in saying that snakes spend "a large chunk of their time" cramped up or confined to a relatively small space. But they don't spend ALL of their time that way. What you're describing is a way for snakes to survive. But for a snake to thrive, I find it difficult to believe that they can do so in such a limited space.

Is there any scholarly or scientific literature available that would support what you are saying? Even for a ball python, I would be interested to read it. I'm truly not trying to be argumentative. If I could even wrap my mind around the possibilities of what you are stating, I may have a significantly larger collection for sure. It may be difficult to capture qualitative as opposed to quantitative data, where even in human subjects "quality of life" has challenges in satisfying objective criteria. However, it shouldn't be impossible. Must be out there somewhere.

I do genuinely appreciate your efforts thus far, as this topic may be slightly controversial, but it is important nevertheless. I know I joke around a GREAT DEAL!! But no matter what, I truly have a great passion towards, and love for, reptiles in general, and specifically cornsnakes, several of which I keep as pets whom I treat as if they are part of my family!

Thanx again!!

 

[DLena]

I had interior painting done and had to get a 28 quart rack to house them for 3 weeks (which became 4) to keep them from the fumes. Gypsy, 1095 grams, coped very well, but I think she came from a situation like that when I bought her. Pernix, on the other hand, who weighs 209 grams, turned into a little tail rattling heathen - he hated the rack - and let me know every single day. ET (161 grams) is my most social snake; he stayed all sunny and sweet, but it was a struggle to get him back inside. He LOVES to look out of his viv doors and I'd slide out the rack and find him in the front ready to slink out onto my hand.
I think PET corns are different from strictly breeders because they are usually interacted with more frequently, so maybe they are more active and like more space? If they have more stimulation (branches, vines, toys) they enjoy it while still feeling safe.
...maybe I'm just being too anthropomorphic... but that's how it is with dogs, cats, birds, even tropical fish, so why not snakes?

 

[axis1]

I had interior painting done and had to get a 28 quart rack to house them for 3 weeks (which became 4) to keep them from the fumes. Gypsy, 1095 grams, coped very well, but I think she came from a situation like that when I bought her. Pernix, on the other hand, who weighs 209 grams, turned into a little tail rattling heathen - he hated the rack - and let me know every single day. ET (161 grams) is my most social snake; he stayed all sunny and sweet, but it was a struggle to get him back inside. He LOVES to look out of his viv doors and I'd slide out the rack and find him in the front ready to slink out onto my hand.
I think PET corns are different from strictly breeders because they are usually interacted with more frequently, so maybe they are more active and like more space? If they have more stimulation (branches, vines, toys) they enjoy it while still feeling safe.
...maybe I'm just being too anthropomorphic... but that's how it is with dogs, cats, birds, even tropical fish, so why not snakes?

Whoa! DLena! How ya been?

You make an extremely good point! (But then again, you USUALLY do!). :eek1:

Anthropomorphic or not, besides for Gypsy, who sounds like a contender for the heavyweight title herself, can you imagine how snakes similar to the other ones you describe, would do in an environment like that rack system for the rest of their days?

My issue is that if you raise your snakes from the time they are hatched or soon thereafter, then you will notice that just about ALL are extremely mobile in the beginning, as hatchlings, and probably (for lack of knowing this definitively whereas there would be no such thread with this particular topic!) become sedentary as a result of the constraints of their environment. Even well-fed hatchlings are out exploring their little deli cups, shoeboxes, or larger enclosures in what seems like a never ending quest to escape, as is their NATURE! As a response to their seemingly limitless energy, which DOES eventually come to an end by the time of their second or third month of life, what does it say about US, as their owners & caretakers, to impose so many restrictions on their movements that they all become virtual monuments that breathe?

There MUST be SOME way to gauge a snake's emotions, no? (You mention ET as being "all sunny and sweet." How do you know this? And why does he struggle when you try to put him BACK into what can only be tantamount to a cell for him?). Things that make you go "Hmmmmm!"

I think that I would rather my little sneaky ones be euthanized than be subjected to a life in that type of contraption, should I croak or become unable to care for them anymore (though I am relatively healthy now and am not circling the drain any faster than I'm supposed to be!). I'm just saying, IF something happened (a former client of mine told me that when she read that most accidents occur in your own home, SHE MOVED!!!). :headbang: