Telling the difference.

[Stygian Faerie]

One of my posts in a different subject went slightly off topic so I thought I should ask again but in the genetics area
How do you tell the difference between an amel hatchling and a butter hatchling? I've been trying to find good pictures online to use as references but I'm really struggling to find good examples. Thanks!

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

Amel and Butter Hatchling

This my Amel at 4 ish weeks old.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

BUTTER and AMEL

first up is BUTTER

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/butter/?sid=



and AMEL

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/amelanistic/?sid=

 

[Stygian Faerie]

Yeah, I've seen them already; I'm just really struggling to see a big difference. I see pictures of hatchlings and think, "that's a butter for sure" then I find out it's actually an amel and vice versa. I'm getting quite frustrated with myself Thanks though

 

[Floof]

Amels have some form of red on them.. Even if they're more red-orange, they're not just yellow.

Butters will be some shade of yellow. The most "Red" you'll get in a butter is maybe some slightly yellow-orangey coloration--but that's it. Caramel is, from my understanding, a form of anerythrism in that it eliminates the red pigment from the animal, so a Butter will not have any red pigment.

For the most part, your Amels will be reddish, like the picture Mona posted of hers. There are occasional Amels who come out more orange, which can get confusing if trying to tell Amels from Butters. In those cases, and with any others that stump you, post pictures! Plenty of us here would be happy to help you figure out which is which, I'm sure.

 

[Susan]

I can understand and sympathize with your problem! It can be very difficult sometimes, but not impossible with practice.

I did a quick search of butter and amel clutches of years past and have some examples for you. These 5 hatchlings plus the next 3 hatchlings are all siblings from an '08 clutch. The photos were taken after their first shed, on the same day/same lighting/same horrible photo adjustments/same everything.

 

[Susan]

The last 2 photos are of the same '09 hatchling after it's first and second shed.

 

[Susan]

Here are 3 siblings from yet another '09 clutch. The last photo is of the second hatchling after it's second shed.

Sorry for poor photo quality, but it might help you see the more subtle differences between butters and amels at hatching. Once they have had a second shed, the difference is much more obvious.

 

[Stygian Faerie]

Aha! So even if I can't tell straight away, it becomes obvious pretty soon? That's such a relief! I've been sitting talking to my hatchlings like some sort of mad woman... "maybe you're an amel, or maybe a butter. Care to tell me?", "I think you're just an amel, are you just an amel?", "and you, you are probably a caramel. Whereas you, are definitely a normal. Completely a normal. Yup..."
This all started because of a second look at one of my babies, who I'd originally put aside as normal, looked more like a caramel. After asking on the forum, I agreed with another member that it was probably just a normal that the colour was taking it's time in developing, seeing as this is the 3rd time I've bred my amel and anery and I've never had a caramel before. Or so I thought! I checked my old pictures of my clutches from '08 and '09 and sure enough, there was a little caramel baby from '08.
So if I'm right, and it's not too early in the morning for me, that means both parents must be het for caramel,
my anery must be het for amel
and
amel het caramel x anery het caramel = chance of butter.
Right?

 

[Susan]

If you have amel hatchlings, then your anery is het for amel. If you have gotten a caramel hatchling, then both would have to be het for caramel. Therefore, the parents are:

amel het caramel X anery het amel caramel = phenotype/visual only
3/8 normal
3/8 amel
1/8 caramel
1/8 butter

 

[Stygian Faerie]

Thanks, everyone! I think I'm slowly wrapping my mind around basic genetics. Very slowly