Tessera/Stripe Caramel/Classic Questions

[backafter30]

Ok, now I see why some prefer to keep their motley/stripes away from their tesseras. I've been reading up on this topic, but want to make sure I have it correct. When you have potential tessera/motley/stripes:
1. If dorsal stripe extends beyond vent, it is tessera.
2. If dorsal stripe does not extend beyond vent, and lateral stripes break up, it is simply stripe.
3. If dorsal stripe extends, and lateral pattern just fades away, probably tessera stripe.

So first, I have a Caramel Stripe? Second and third are tessera stripes?

 

[backafter30]

My other question: What is the key identifier for a caramel? This is the first pairing I've done that could potentially produce normal colored corns. I should get about 50/50 normal to caramel, but while some seem obviously caramel, none seem obviously normal to me. Also, how can I tell a tessera motley from a tessera stripe?

 

[backafter30]

I did get a couple of my target morph, tessera butter stripe. One however has a vanishing pattern. Does that mean it is also a tessera?

 

[backafter30]

One last question. One of the pairings that produced these babies was a male Tessera Caramel Stripe het. amel and a female Motley/Stripe Fire het. Caramel. I got 16 tessera/motley/stripe combos, as expected... and one normal patterned amel with an unpatterned belly. How did that happen?

 

[Shiari]

From the first post, I think only the last baby is a tessera stripe due to the narrowness of the stripe.

From the second post, the second picture and the last are normals. Young caramels are brown/yellow. Any red or true orange shows it to be a normal.

From the third post, while vanishing tessera have been seen, the second animal shown looks like a completely normal butter stripe, not tessera. Note the difference in width in the stripes between it and the striped butter tessera?

From the fourth post: it might just be a motley with poor patterning. Such does happen.

 

[backafter30]

Thanks for chiming in, Shiari. I would have said the same thing a few weeks ago, but then I read this thread: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140919&highlight=tessera+stripe

I also checked Ians Vivarium, and they show a tessera-stripe as having a rather wide dorsal stripe, too. Most of these hatchlings will be for sale, and I want to advertise them honestly and price them accordingly. More opinions are welcome!

 

[zorro]

Great looking clutch, I love the striped tessera butters. This is my two cents, if I put a question mark I feel only breeding will tell or need a better pic.
John
Post 1
Pic 1 No
Pic 2 yes
Pic 3 yes
Post 2
Pic 1 no a motley
Pic 2 no striped motley
Pic 3 yes
Pic 4 yes
Pic 5 no motley
Post 3
Pic 1 yes
Pic 2 yes? need a better pic

 

[backafter30]

If I understand correctly, that's one vote for, one vote against the vanishing tesseras. More opinions?

 

[zorro]

If I understand correctly, that's one vote for, one vote against the vanishing tesseras. More opinions?

My votes should count as 2 cause Don and I went over the pics together.
John

 

[cturley]

Let's see . . . one thing you might also take into account is a faded or reduced head pattern on tessera stripes. I admit, a few of yours are tricky! But my take is:

1: caramel stripe
2: tessera stripe caramel (geno is stripe/stripe)
3: tessera motley caramel (motley/stripe)
4: caramel motley
5: normal tessera motley (motley/stripe)--either the lighting is yellowish, or this guy is a yellow-jacket?
6: tessera caramel motley (motley/stripe)
7: tessera caramel motley (motley/stripe)--this one reminds me of Wendy's highway-stripes!
8: normal motley--again, yellow-jacket?
9: tessera motley butter (motley/stripe)
10: tessera stripe butter (stripe/stripe)

I would bet that your "normal" pattern with the unpatterned belly is actually a motley with a very poor/undeveloped motley patterning. Rich Hume and I produced several like that in the 2013 cross that started all this (a Striped Pied Blood x a "Striped" Tessera that turned out to be a Motley/Stripe Tessera. All of the plain motleys looked like the one in the photos below.

Gorgeous babies, and congrats on hitting the Butter jackpot! If you're going to be at the RMRE show next weekend and can bring the babies, I'd be happy to discuss them, and bring similar examples from my clutches this summer.

 

[cturley]

Being in a hurry, I didn't go over the other responders' posts until after posting mine. But I see John and I agree on all but Post 2, Pic 2. I can definitely see grounds for his thought that it's a pin-striped motley, not a tessera motley, except that very few lines produce such strong, unbroken pin-striping that reaches all the way to the tail (without tessera). And those that do, like my sunrise amel striped motleys, tend to always do so, or at least around 90% of the time. Since the other motleys in your post have typical motley patterns (non pin-striped), that makes the one in question less likely to be a pin-striped motley, to my mind. It's certainly not impossible, but less likely.

Since your pic is only of the head and neck, we can't tell in this case whether the pin-striping reaches along the snake's entire length. If it does, I'll stand by saying it's a tessera. If not, and it has breaks, then I'll bow to John's opinion.