Thoughts on heat lamps?

[Eponine]

Hello,
I am getting ready to upgrade my dear baby to her 20 gallon, and with it, I am buying new things. I'm noticing more and more how her heat pad doesn't heat up the rest of the tank at all, leaving it room temp (quite cold). So she spends all her time under her log where the pad is, and I'd like to see here more. So I am wondering if I should get a heating lamp to go along with the pad. I've heard people say some pretty bad things about it, but I'm not sure. So, thoughts on lamps? Yes, no, helpful suggestions for use? Help me out here!

 

[TheFrogman]

Heat pads should only heat up the section of the enclosure near the Heat Pad (about 1/3 of the enclosure), your cool side should be about 70-75, your snake should have different zones so that they can regulate their body temps.

I do have a heat lamp but I rarely use it, only on very cold days

 

[daddio207]

If it makes Eponine Les Misérables then use a heat lamp.

Sorry I couldn't resist

Use of heat lamps is frowned on due to possible overheating and drying out the air in the tank. The most important thing is to have the proper heat gradient and if you can only achieve it with a heat lamp then use one. I would use a night bulb or a Ceramic Heat Emitter. Get a higher wattage and use a plug in light dimmer to adjust it. You will have to play with position to keep the right gradient. Do NOT put it inside the tank. Use a thermometer at each end to make sure you still have a cool end. Also you will have to compensate for the dryness it will create in the tank. If you are using a thermostat or dimmer with your UTH (you should be) then you might have to re-adjust it.
I base what I say on the info posted. Good luck

 

[knox]

I have used them for years (since the 80's) and had as much success as the Heat Mats I have used since the late 90's and the Flexwatt I have used the past several years.

For snakes that don't require tropical humidity, overhead lamps can be quite useful. And by using different wattage bulbs, temps can be easy to maintain as well.

 

[Chip]

I'm no fan of bulbs for snakes. If you must use radiant heat, a ceramic heat emitter is safer, doesn't produce light, and doesn't burn out.

 

[smigon]

I am for NO heat lamp. If the UTH you have now is too small, buy a larger size. They are quite cheap on Amazon.

 

[vetusvates]

I have never used a heat lamp. Too dangerous unattended.
And cornsnakes do not require light (UVA, UVB) for proper metabolism, and the latter may hurt amels' eyes.
Corn snakes are crepuscular. They creep during puscular times of the day.

There is no rule that says you can't affix a heat pad vertically on part of the end or side or corner of the (I'm assuming) glass viv.
As long as the corn snake can get away from it, as well as approach it.
I have them placed variously---and the snakes move around, towards and away, all the time.

 

[7legion77]

i have a 50 watt infrared bulb that I use in conjunction with a heating pad. I switch it on and off depending on the weather. I have a large tank so this setup provides a very broad gradient of temps.
Sometimes he likes to climb up on branch and bask under the lamp. Plus the red lighting looks cool at night.

 

[knox]

There are a lot of opinions on this - almost like a religion at times, it seems. Just because some hate them and SAY there is no place for them, doesn't make it true.

Keep this in mind. When Corns first exploded with breeders and the pet trade, back in the 70's, incandescent bulbs were used for heating. We now have millions of Corns in the hobby thanks to those healthy snakes that were kept and bred with heat lamps.

A Corn doesn't care WHERE the heat comes from. Overhead lamps warm up the area below it. A climbing branch up close to an overhead heat source gives an excellent thermoregulation gradient.

The sun warms the earth, rocks, asphalt - places snakes can often be found soaking up the heat. Overhead lamps, with a piece of tile or flat rock underneath, is a great way to provide heat. And if one can't afford a quality thermostat to regulate a heat mat or flexwatt - this is actually safer for the Corn.

*** As long as there are not other animals roaming free in the house to knock the lamp over****

I am not going to argue with anyone about this. The facts speak for themselves. Heat lamps have, and will continue to provide adequate heat for a healthy Corn Snake.

And for what it's worth, I am currently using an Animal Plastics Rack with flexwatt belly heat hooked up to a Vivarium Electronics proportional thermostat. But when I set up a display viv in my 40 Gallon breeder, I will use overhead heating.

 

[daddio207]

There is no rule that says you can't affix a heat pad vertically on part of the end or side or corner of the (I'm assuming) glass viv.

I thought that you might find this interesting............


I was in my local pet store a few weeks ago and was talking to them about heat pads. I noticed they didn't sell any kind of dimmer/thermostat and ask them why. They said it was unnecessary because they recommend placing the UTH on the side of the tank. It made me wonder if there was something to it so I went home and did a little experiment. I placed a UTH on the side of a 10 gallon tank and gave it 24+ hours to warm up. I attached a thermometer to the inside glass by the suction cup so it would read the temp just off the glass. My plan was to take readings every 2 inches going away from the UTH but after taking the first two readings it was obvious it was unnecessary. With a temp gun the glass read 103 degrees. Just off the glass (1/4 inch) it was 84.3 and 2 inches away was 70.7. The room temp was 69.9. I left it for about 5 days and no change in temps but very minor fluctuations due to room temps slightly changing. The top was a screen.
The UTH just could not radiate enough heat outward thru the glass to make any significant difference. There is the possibility that covering the top to trap in the heat could work but I didn't test it.
Just for reference, the same UTH attached under the glass tank with a thermometer laying on the bare glass inside read 113 degrees and with bedding 138 degrees.
It was an interesting outcome

 

[AliCat37]

I hate to get into this discussion, because personally, I would NEVER use a heat lamp. I will never forget the day that I was sitting in my classroom (zoology, animals everywhere) and without any reasoning or warning at all, one of the heat lamps exploded and caught fire.
Prior to knowing about thermostats, I had two fail, and they simply shut off when that happened. Since using thermostats, I have not had one fail.

Generally, if I am selling a baby snake and people want to use a lamp, my general answer is "heat pads with a thermostat are better, but if you go with a lamp, make sure there is always a humidity hide."

 

[knox]

I hate to get into this discussion, because personally, I would NEVER use a heat lamp. I will never forget the day that I was sitting in my classroom (zoology, animals everywhere) and without any reasoning or warning at all, one of the heat lamps exploded and caught fire.
Prior to knowing about thermostats, I had two fail, and they simply shut off when that happened. Since using thermostats, I have not had one fail.

Generally, if I am selling a baby snake and people want to use a lamp, my general answer is "heat pads with a thermostat are better, but if you go with a lamp, make sure there is always a humidity hide."

Cat, that is unnerving for sure. Your opinion and experience definitely carry weight, as you have earned your respect and reputation in this hobby. That's the first I have ever heard of that happening, and it is certainly a risk. I do not discount that experience at all.

There was a tragic fire a few years ago at a large scale breeding facility - Boas and Balls if I remember correctly (I am sure several people remember this). If I am not mistaken, the fire was the result of a rare failure with flexwatt.

There is a risk with any type of heating. Heat pads, flexwat, heat lamps. They all produce heat by electrical resistance. I DO understand peoples' dislike for overhead heating. And for Balls or other tropical snakes, it is NOT the way to go. I am just saying that it is a viable option for North American Colubrids - and especially desert species like western Gophers and Cal Kings or Desert Kings.

As I stated, I am currently using flexwat and a proportional thermostat. But I even have a little apprehension about that when I am away because anything CAN fail.

I pray we never experience a problem no matter what we use.

 

[Chip]

There are a lot of opinions on this - almost like a religion at times, it seems. Just because some hate them and SAY there is no place for them, doesn't make it true.

Or untrue. BTW, where did anyone say that there is no place for them? There is just a safer, more efficient alternative.

Keep this in mind. When Corns first exploded with breeders and the pet trade, back in the 70's, incandescent bulbs were used for heating. We now have millions of Corns in the hobby thanks to those healthy snakes that were kept and bred with heat lamps.

Millions of dogs have survived to breed being fed low quality corn based foods but that doesn't make it ideal. This is more to point out a logical fallacy than attack your point. I agree with your next statement.

A Corn doesn't care WHERE the heat comes from. Overhead lamps warm up the area below it. A climbing branch up close to an overhead heat source gives an excellent thermoregulation gradient.

Of course. Lamps do "work." They also are a bigger fire risk because they reach a higher temperature. They are less efficient because you are placing heat (which rises) atop the enclosure.

And if one can't afford a quality thermostat to regulate a heat mat or flexwatt - this is actually safer for the Corn.

Really? How do you determine this? Both are an unregulated heat source running wide open. The heat mat is going to reach about 100 degrees lower in temperature. I have used both for decades, both have caused fires for me. Without a single doubt, if you said I have to put my Palmetto in a 20 gallon long with either a)a heat lamp running unregulated, or b) a heat pad of my choice running unregulated, I would choose the latter every day and twice on Sunday.

*** As long as there are not other animals roaming free in the house to knock the lamp over****

I would also expect corn owners to have a higher percentage of other animals in the house than the general public.

I am not going to argue with anyone about this.

You just want to post your opinion and no one else be allowed to rebut?

The facts speak for themselves. Heat lamps have, and will continue to provide adequate heat for a healthy Corn Snake.

Your argument just seems pretty light on facts. At best, incandescent lights are equally dangerous, less efficient, and need to be replaced more often. Granted, a big part of my having no use for them is from years of managing a larger collection than can be kept in glass. I don't argue the merits of their heat "working" nor do I scream that no one should use them. But reptile husbandry has come a long way since the 70's.

 

[knox]

Chip you make some assumptions...

When I said I won't argue, you assume I mean that the conversation is closed. By contrast, what I mean is that I won't get into a childish argument on the internet. An open discussion, with well thought out replies, is always welcomed.

And you say that both unregulated heat lamps and heat mats carry the same dangers? I disagree. A 40 watt incandescent bulb will ONLY put out 40 watts of power - hardly enough to bake a snake with the ambient temperature in the room around 74 degrees. However, unregulated heat mats or flexwatt DO have the ability to harm a snake by continually putting out much more heat than that 40 watt incandescent bulb. My experience has been that in a 40 gallon breeder aquarium, 60 watts is ideal in the winter and 40 in the summer for a mid 80's hot spot... based on MY home environment. Others may find slightly different needs based on their inside temperatures.

And of course I am posting my opinion. That's what we ALL do here. If my statement of fact, that overhead incandescent bulbs are NOT safer than flex or heat mats or radiant heat panels, I am very happy to recant that statement. But I know of no study done on this. As it stands, the fact remains that many people have had great success keeping snakes with over head incandescent bulbs. I welcome any verifiable statistics that prove me wrong.

For that matter, I would love to see any study done at all proving that belly heat is BETTER than over head incandescent bulbs. If one exists - showing that Corns eat better, breed better, and are generally healthier - I will gladly change my view on the matter.

I am not interested in being "right". I am interested in "truth". Your opinion, my opinion, the next guy or gal's opinion... They are all viable until refuted with verifiable trial and comparisons and facts that can be reproduced.

You presented some good counterpoints. But who's to say that your opinions weigh heavier than mine or anyone else's?

 

[knox]

Oh, and the dog food comparison is not applicable. We aren't talking nutrition, we are talking environment.

It would be applicable if we were talking eggs vs mice vs rats vs moles and so on.

Of course a good quality dog food is better. That isn't even debatable.

 

[Chip]

Chip you make some assumptions...

When I said I won't argue, you assume I mean that the conversation is closed. By contrast, what I mean is that I won't get into a childish argument on the internet. An open discussion, with well thought out replies, is always welcomed.

My apologies then. It read that way to me.

And you say that both unregulated heat lamps and heat mats carry the same dangers? I disagree. A 40 watt incandescent bulb will ONLY put out 40 watts of power ........

So now the bulb in question is only 40 watt? A 40 watt bulb still gets much, much hotter than any commercially made heat mat. I've temp tested every Exo_terra, Zilla, and Ultra therm mat. I have yet had one spike out over 145. A 40 watt bulb will easily temp out at 250 degrees.

Again, I'm not saying "don't use bulbs," simply that there is a safer, more efficient method. My dog food analogy was simply to point out that because something has "worked" does not mean that there isn't a better alternative.

 

[knox]

I agree. The bulb itself gets hot. But the heat it gives off, being 12 to 16 inches above the substrate, is FAR less than an unregulated heat mat attached to the bottom of the same tank. Thus, giving much greater risk for injury than the bulb.

 

[alan]

I'm noticing more and more how her heat pad doesn't heat up the rest of the tank at all, leaving it room temp (quite cold).

What is the ambient temperature of the room? If you can't make the room warmer I don't see any option except to have two heat sources like you're thinking about doing. Either way you would need some kind of regulation on each source.
I have had a viv with a ceramic heat emitter on a rheostat for over a year (Maybe two years. I'm not good with remembering whens unless I sit and think about it for a while!). It works pretty good but the rheostat needs adjusted sometimes. You must remember to look at the temperature regularly and adjust it if necessary. The ceramic emitter is on one end but it does raise the temperature of the entire viv. It raises just a degree or two above the room temp on the cooler end but it does change the overall temperature, of course it raises more on the side under the emitter.
One concern with two sources of heat is the location of the water bowl. With the heat emitter I must keep the bowl away from the area that it "shines" on or it dries up very quickly. I would think that with a second UTH set at a low temp like 70°F that would be less of a problem. I have no idea if that's true.

 

[Chip]

I agree. The bulb itself gets hot. But the heat it gives off, being 12 to 16 inches above the substrate, is FAR less than an unregulated heat mat attached to the bottom of the same tank. Thus, giving much greater risk for injury than the bulb.

I have never seen (or heard of) a corn snake being injured from a UTH that it could get away from. I have kept scores of them on unregulated flexwatt. There is no risk of injury from unregulated UTH, barring the cage overheating or fire, which I would argue is no higher risk than if using a bulb.

 

[knox]

I have never seen (or heard of) a corn snake being injured from a UTH that it could get away from. I have kept scores of them on unregulated flexwatt. There is no risk of injury from unregulated UTH, barring the cage overheating or fire, which I would argue is no higher risk than if using a bulb.

Honest question here - because I do value your opinion.

If you had success with unregulated flexwatt, why use a thermostat?