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To Euthanize or not...?

B

BeauBoi

New member
Hi All!

I have a serious question. I am having trouble deciding wether or not to euthanize a snake.

Not to go into too much detail, I recently received 2 newly hatched snakes. I ordered the snakes with the knowledge that one was a difficult feeder. A couple of days before the breeder shipped them, the male of the pair was being assist-fed and somehow managed to become damaged.

The breeder immediately contacted me, refunded the money for the male, and offered to let me have him at no charge to see if he recovered.

The snake has several muscular-kinks on the left side of his body. When I first got him, I titrated some Meloxicam and administered it to the snake. For several days after administering the medication, the knotted areas smoothed out and it really seemed that he would make a full recovery, unfortunately, as the Meloxicam wore off the knotted areas returned.

Obviously, I will never use this snake for breeding purposes, but I thought I might gift him as a pet to my nephew. However, I now feel uncertain.

The snake doesn't seem to be in any pain (that I can tell), however, he still refuses to eat unassisted and he thrashes so much that his muscular--/knots become very inflamed after a feeding. The knots also affect his movement, with him not being able to straighten his body completely.

I have never had to euthanize a snake, and it isn't something I want to do, but I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be kinder....?

I would like to hear other's opinions on the subject. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks,
~Beau
 
It is not anything I can offer advice on. I don't have the experience or knowledge that I believe is needed. I do offer kind thoughts and empathy as you sort this out. I feel for the little snake and wish you the best. Whatever your decision, you have my support.
 
Ouch. Sorry you are dealing with that. I had to force-feed a hatching who refused to eat for over two months until he finally began regurgitating everything I pushed into him and it nearly broke my heart watching him literally wither away! If the little guy is thrashing around for whatever reason, I doubt it's a good one. However, like dollysmom, I can't advise you on what to do from here. Hopefully, someone with more experience and/or knowledge will be able to guide you with more certainty?

Either way, my heart and prayers are with you and your little one.
 
I completely agree with Dolly's mom. No one would fault you for euthanizing him. OTOH, you could turn him around, he would go on to be a pet, and you'd have gained skills to save someone else, someday. Why is he thrashing so much? Could you change your method? Can you get him to strike? Can you press the pink against his nose till he just opens?
 
Thank you all for the support. It is such a heartbreaking situation, and I dither back and forth over what would be the right thing to do.

He will not strike. He seems to be one of those little ones who's flight-reflex vastly out weighs his fight-reflex. He thrashes because I am forced to use a tiny nail file to open his mouth, as he absolutely will NOT open it otherwise.

I have done absolutely everything I can think of to try and get him to eat. I have sented pinks with lizards (gecko, anole, spiny lizard) and frogs after washing them with dawn dishwashing liquid. I have even tried feeding him strips of fish, beef heart, and liver. I really just don't know what else to try.

I plan to continue as I have been, at least for a couple of more weeks. If anyone knows of any other tricks to get him to eat that I haven't tried yet, I would appreciate a heads-up.

I will keep y'all posted as this plays out. I will be attending the Charleston Repticon on the 21st, and I am hoping to purchase a pinkie-pump while there. I think it may be a bit easier to feed him with a pump.

Thanks,
~Beau
 
I have a huge list of feeding tricks down in my personal forum.

How much does he weigh?
 
Wow. That just really sucks. I feel for you and the little critter. Your love for your snakes is evident by the sincerity of your efforts and the harder you work to save one of them, the better it will feel if you are successful. And if the results aren't positive, the great thing about this forum is that, at the very least, your efforts aren't totally in vain as you will receive the necessary support from your peers and fellow snake-lovers! Besides, it's not always the goal which is important as is the process (or the road you take to get there and the means you travel by). However, one thing is for sure: if in the end you ARE successful and your sneaky one makes a full recovery, you might want to change its name to "Milagro" or "Miracle!"

BTW - that pump you were referring to CAN make the difference! Patience, especially in between forced-feeding efforts, is the other mandatory component which you will need in order to ensure any degree of success!

My thoughts & prayers are with you!
 
Nanci said:
I have a huge list of feeding tricks down in my personal forum.

How much does he weigh?
Click to expand...

Hi Nancy!
I am not absolutely certain about his weight, as I cannot for the life of me find my scales. However, even for a hatchling, he is really really small. He is only ~3 inches long, and I would guesstimate that he is about 3-4 grams (max).

If I don't find my scales by the weekend, I will pick up another set at Repticon this weekend.

~Beau
 
Oh, and since I am raising my own feeders, I am using day-old mice (I have tried both frozen/thawed and live mice and natal mice.
~Beau
 
Sometimes runty babies like that just won't eat on their own till they get up to 6-7 grams. Sometimes they will. I have one that hatched at <4g that I've been working with since last summer, for a friend. She struck for the first time last feeding.
 
I really hope that he will eventually strike as well! He really is a beautiful snake, despite the knots/kinks. He is a locality specific greyband, and even as a non-breeder would make a really lovely pet.
I had friend suggest that I try boiling a pink, so he is currently sitting in a paper bag with a boiled pinkie head...lol the things I do for my snakes <sigh>
~Beau
 
Ooh, greyband. Good luck. They don't like mice anyway. Turtle food scent? Have you watched the greyband slap feeding video? He doesn't bite, you say, but sometimes you can press the pink up against his nose until he opens, which is less stressful than prying it open.

Baby anole? I hate that, but it might work. Anole tail segment?

I use you know those dental floss picks things, the cheap green ones have the sharp pointy end that breaks off to use as a toothpick- you can take that and stick it through the snake's mouth crosswise, then get the pink head in, and slide the toothpick out, if you're coordinated. It's easier than prying it open.
 
WARNING!! LIVE feeding, with squeeking. This works well for me with a hot boiled pink, too.

 
That's Jorge Sierra. You could ask him on here or Colubrid Crazy on Facebook, to see if he has any other suggestions for graybands.
 
Nancy, thanks for the vid! I haven't tried slap-feeding while holding him, so I will definitely give that a try!
Gray-bands do tend to be a bit fussier about taking mice, but I have never had one that wouldn't eventually eat them. I would SO feed him a baby anole if I had one, but the pet stores here only carry adult anoles (which I used to sent 4 pinks with, but didn't have any success...).
The (non-related) female of the pair eats like a horse, and she has doubled in size since I received them. I just wish she could persuade him to do like wise! Lol
I really appreciate the help and advice! I will keep you updated!
~Beau
 
We do have wild ones, and I have even seen he occasional baby, but I am older than I care to admit and suffer from mobility issues related to degenerative joint disease, so catching them is another story entirely lol.

Also, I have always heard that wild ones carry parasites, so I think it safest to go with store bought (they are only about $6at the local PetsMart).
~Beau
 
Back to slap-feeding. I'd of course heard of tease-feeding years ago, and imagined taking a pinky with tweezers and dancing it around to simulate a wild mouse. Haha. I met this guy at Daytona, shoot, I can't think of his name. It's who I bought Noah the BOA from. Anyway, he was talking to Katie haluska about getting graybands started, and describing slap-feeding. We were obviously going about tease-feeding all wrong! You need to jab the snake in the right spot in the neck to provoke a bite. It's like a reflex, and almost all of them have it. You can practice with a bitey baby to get the hang of it. I think I have a video somewhere, too. So- you don't poke the pink in their face, you jab in the neck, about 1/2 to 1 inch down from the head, depending on size. You have to be holding the pink just right, so when the snake snaps his head around, he connects smack over the pink's head. Then you FREEZE. Don't make eye contact, don't breathe, don't move, (so make sure you're comfortable before you start!!!) and eventually the snake will either start to swallow, or will drop it. If he drops it, start over. If he stops striking, put him away for half an hour to recharge.

Once you have him biting and holding, different babies like different things. Some, you can set down. Some, you can hold. Some, you can walk around with. Some like to crawl under your hand. You just kind of have to get a feel for what they want to do, while swallowing, that isn't going to cause them to quit and drop the pink.

It may not work on this baby, but it's really a good skill to practice, even with established feeders, so you're good at it when you really need it, and so you can evaluate if it's going to work on any potential baby. Almost all of them will reflexively strike. For me, if a baby will strike, even once, I can get him to slap feed. Every once in a while, there's one that just won't bite no matter what.
 
Thank you once again for your feeding information and turning it into a sticky, Nanci. None of us know when we are going to need this.
 
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