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vet tests for genetics?

S

serpentfinder

New member
Hi,
I just found out in another thread that my snow corn snake that I bought from Petland cannot be a snow because it is black and white. So can I take my little one to a vet and have genetic tests done to see what he is (at this point I'm not sure he is a corn) and find out any other nice things that could be useful for breeding purposes later?
I did a search for herp vets in my area and found none! Should I call a dog/cat vet?
 
If you post a picture WE can tell you what kind of corn it is, or if its not a corn, what species of snake it is and help you detemine how you could set up a breeding plan.

You cannot medically test for genetics. You test breed for them.
 
As soon as I can get this camera of mine working, I will gladly post pictures. I tried to hook it up and run the camera wizard, but it wouldn't work. I think I am going to have to go to the company website. I'll try to post them tomorrow.

I guess I am going to have to do some learning on the genetics, uh?
 
serpentfinder said:
I guess I am going to have to do some learning on the genetics, uh?
Click to expand...

It makes things sooo much easier if you have a basic understanding of Mendelian genetics. But as for a genetic test, AFAIK, there isn't any such thing for corns to be able to screen for hets, etc. But yeah, post pics and you'll find out everything you want to know about it (for the most part).
 
While you're waiting for your camera to be fixed, browse the Photo Gallery and the General Chit Chat forums to see if you can find a snake that looks like yours.
 
I did, but I couldn't really find a match. I've began checking King snakes but no luck there either. His markings seem to be wrong. He is blotchy, but his blotches seem to be patterned different and I haven't found one the right colors. A freind came today and took film pictures of it for me. She said that she had never ever seen a white snake. Not a real white like mine, but she has seen albino. She loved it. She also was commenting on how active it was, nothing like the other snakes that she had been around which hid or laid around all day. She thought I was setting the temp on it specail to make it behave that way, but I told her no. Anyway, hopefully she has the film developed soon.
 
serpentfinder said:
I just found out in another thread that my snow corn snake that I bought from Petland cannot be a snow because it is black and white. So can I take my little one to a vet and have genetic tests done to see what he is (at this point I'm not sure he is a corn) and find out any other nice things that could be useful for breeding purposes later?
Click to expand...
There are no genetic tests for morphs. However, if you snake is black and white, it is most likely an Anerythristic ("Anery" for short, sometimes called, "Black Albino"). A Snow would be pink and white, possibly with yellow along the throat. Any snake with black markings cannot be a snow.
 
He is definately black and white all over. We turned him all around and upside down. There isn't even a hint of yellow.
Just curious... I'm beginning to find out that breeding snakes is nothing like puppies. You can't just say "oh hes cute. I think I'll mate him and have cute little ones". Is it wiser to not breed snakes unless you are in the career or serious hobby of snakes?
 
serpentfinder said:
He is definately black and white all over. We turned him all around and upside down. There isn't even a hint of yellow.
Click to expand...

Would you describe him as "ringed" or "blotched" ? What does his belly look like? Is it plain (or fading to a different colour at the back of him) or does it have markings?

Just curious... I'm beginning to find out that breeding snakes is nothing like puppies. You can't just say "oh hes cute. I think I'll mate him and have cute little ones". Is it wiser to not breed snakes unless you are in the career or serious hobby of snakes?
Click to expand...

I'm personally firmly of the belief that "this'll make cute babies" is not a good reason to breed anything, regardless of species. My intent to breed is for a wider purpose, since babies of most species are "cute".

I breed mice, rats and multimammates for even temperaments and to feed my snakes.
I breed geckos to produce higher-end morphs that are good feeders.
I intend to breed corns to produce middle-grade morphs that are good feeders.
I intend to breed house snakes, rainbow boas and Kenyan sand boas to increase the captive populations of these, and will be breeding for good feeders.

Until you know for sure what your snake IS you don't want to be thinking about breeding it.
 
serpentfinder said:
He is definately black and white all over. We turned him all around and upside down. There isn't even a hint of yellow.
Just curious... I'm beginning to find out that breeding snakes is nothing like puppies. You can't just say "oh hes cute. I think I'll mate him and have cute little ones". Is it wiser to not breed snakes unless you are in the career or serious hobby of snakes?
Click to expand...
It's wiser not to breed any animal until you have a thorough understanding of genetics and have homes for the offspring.
 
House Snakes

Hi Ssthisto, what type of house Snakes do you breed.
I am curious as I live in South Africa and breed Brown House Snakes.
I can also get Kenyan Sand Boas.

Ciao
 
Not to go too off-topic, but my housies are (according to belly scale count) L. fuliginosus - Brown house snakes. At the moment I'm rather disappointed - my hatchling "black" male has turned a rather peculiar shade of bluish olive green with chestnut/burnt orange spots - beautiful, but not what I bought him as!

With regards to the original poster, though... I'm still not fully sure this little guy's definitely a corn - I wonder if he's actually some sort of kingsnake?
 
King Snake

I'm wondering if your little guy is not perhaps a Grey Rat snake.
The Housie sounds like a spotted which is rare in captivity.

Ciao
 
jaxom1957 said:
It's wiser not to breed any animal until you have a thorough understanding of genetics and have homes for the offspring.
Click to expand...
How can you ever have a for sure home for a snake? Unless your giving it to a zoo or a pet shop.
 
Spork said:
How can you ever have a for sure home for a snake? Unless your giving it to a zoo or a pet shop.
Click to expand...
You needn't have a specific home, but you do need to have a means to finding homes. Is there a pet shop that sells reptiles or is at least willing to purchase the hatchlings? Are you a contributing member of cornsnakes.com, therefor allowed to post "For Sale" ads on the sales forum? Do you have friends who have expressed a desire to own offspring from your snakes? Do ads for snakes appear in you local newspaper, and are they successful?

Unless you intend to keep all of the offspring your snakes produce, you need to be thinking ahead to where the young snakes will go. If you don't understand the genetics, you'll have trouble convincing people who do to buy your snakes. If you haven't explored avenues for rehoming the offspring, you will find yourself owning too many snakes and will have to rid yourself of them in ways you might find difficult to accept. Are you willing and able to kill offspring for which you can't find homes? Are you willing to turn them loose into the wild, knowing that they will, in all likelihood, find either slowly painful or gruesomely quick deaths? That's what befalls most domesticated pets that are "set free". Cats and dogs are hit by cars, die of malnutrition or starvation or are picked up by Animal Control and gassed to death. Snakes don't even have that slim chance that someone will go into the pound looking for a pet and saving it from being put down. If you don't have a clear plan for providing a future for the snakes you produce, please, do not produce any.
 
Truthfully, and this might be distasteful for some, I have no problem with giving a quick and almost painless death to any animal. Sure, I wouldn't breed any animal without knowing I have a responsibility to try and give them a decent life. However, I also wouldn't begin a life that I wouldn't end.

What I meant by my original statement was that I seen lots of statements that suggsted it was irresponsible to breed snakes without a very good understanding of the genetics. It seemed like breeding snakes was or at least should be highly technical. I think it would be irresponsible to bring offspring into the world that might endanger the integrity of the species.
 
jaxom1957 said:
Are you willing and able to kill offspring for which you can't find homes? Are you willing to turn them loose into the wild, knowing that they will, in all likelihood, find either slowly painful or gruesomely quick deaths?
Click to expand...

Ok I've been with you all the way up to here. I am not a breeder nor do I intend to do anything other than maybe breed one time in the future(once I'm more sure of myself and what I know), but I can honestly say that I'd NEVER kill off any "extras", nor set them free(for the reasons you stated). It kind of makes me sick to think that some breeders would rather kill the snakes that didn't get sold than just give them away. Even handing a snake to a random kid on the street would give it SOME hope of survival and a good life!

I hope that what you wrote was misinterpreted by me, because if not, that just saddens me...that's all I'll say.
 
mommyof2 said:
Ok I've been with you all the way up to here. I am not a breeder nor do I intend to do anything other than maybe breed one time in the future(once I'm more sure of myself and what I know), but I can honestly say that I'd NEVER kill off any "extras", nor set them free(for the reasons you stated). It kind of makes me sick to think that some breeders would rather kill the snakes that didn't get sold than just give them away. Even handing a snake to a random kid on the street would give it SOME hope of survival and a good life!

I hope that what you wrote was misinterpreted by me, because if not, that just saddens me...that's all I'll say.
Click to expand...
You did misinterpret what I wrote. I listed all of the sad choices that people who breed animals without planning for their future have to face. All of them, to one degree or another, are unfair to the animal, whether it be letting them loose to starve or be killed, killing them yourself (which, at least in the amount of suffering, is the most humane) or giving them to "a random kid on the street", who, while he might go to the trouble of learning how to properly care for the snake, might just as likely treat the snake as a disposable pet: after all, that's how you treated it by giving it to him.

In other threads, I have argued against culling hatchlings for the sole reason that they are not a desired morph or quality. I would far rather it find a home with someone who wants a snake, wants to learn to care for it and give it a good life. I have let the breeders who know me know that I will take in the non-feeders that they haven't the time to turn around, whether to keep as my own, return to the breeder, or find homes for. No, I am not advocating killing any healthy animal unless it is to feed a pet or person higher in the food chain. I have planned my snake purchases so that when I am ready to breed them, the babies produced will be of desirable morphs or het for them. I am a paid member of the site, on good terms with other members, and I don't think I will have a problem finding homes among them for my offspring. I'm not in it for the money, and I'd rather know the kind of home my babies go to than have a bit more change in my pocket. I also have an excellent relationship with my local mom-and-pop pet store and would be able to sell my hatchlings through them. I've planned ahead to avoid having to choose between levels of crappy alternatives.
 
Jaxom,
I agree that everything is a sucky alternative, BUT, do you ever put a snake down? I don't mean just because you don't want the color or pattern, but because the snake can't get a home? I don't think it would be as easy to get rid of snakes as it is a kitty or puppy- and sometimes even they are hard. I don't believe I have ever seen an ad for snakes in my area.
 
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I am love animals and the thought that someone who has too many killing off the unsold makes me sad :( . I plan to breed Eddy eventually(mainly to prove out his hets), but before I do, I'll be sure I have the room/vivs for all the babies to grow into adults(just incase they don't sell). And if I can get rid of all the babies, I'll have some open vivs to fill :grin01: I completely agree that one should be as educated as possible before attempting to breed anything(including themselves!).

I just reread my post and it sounded a little harsh. I didn't mean for it to come out that way, and I hope I haven't offended you by asking.
 
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