Want Fries With That Degree?

[GoFride]

Employers are requiring college degrees more and more, for jobs that have never needed a college education. Many companies these days won't consider hiring applicants without that degree. It doesn't seem to matter to employers what the degree is for, because that expensive education may not even be needed. It's simply being used as a screening tool. So now we've got receptionists, store clerks, office support, day care workers, you name it - thousands of dollars in debt for a college education so they could get a job somewhere, doing something. And the longer they're away from their specialized field of study, the more likely they'll be left behind and will never work in that field. Got a degree in architecture? You might wind up working as a waitress at Red Lobster, to try to pay those bills. After a year or two goes by, what are the odds that some architecture firm will hire you? It gets less likely with every passing month. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree. There is a growing disconnect between labor market realities and the propaganda of higher education. We keep raising the educational bar (and the resulting debt) higher and higher. I just don't understand the logic of it.

 

[cornsnakeforsale_com]

Sad but true.

If you decide on a college degree make it in something that is marketable. If you get a degree in History, Art, Education, etc, you're going to be underwater on that degree right away.

Not going as far as a Bachelor's is actually a good move for a lot of people. This was a very interesting read, http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/26/pf/college/community-college-earnings/index.html .

 

[Quixotic]

Having been through the system recently (with a bachelor's in criminal justice and a job in that field) I have noticed that high-school does an awful job at preparing students for the real world. That education is a baseline, doesn't teach you to think for yourself, just to follow instructions and regurgitate information. College teaches you to seek new information and new experiences, so you can be exposed to different perspectives than your own. For me, most of college had to do with reading peer-reviewed research and studies instead of just listening to what the teacher had to say. You had to find the truth on your own. High-school just didn't meet that standard.

The problem is that people expect the college degree to be an automatic ticket to a good job and they find out that isn't the case. You still need to make yourself marketable to succeed in the competitive nature of the job market. Maybe there simply aren't enough entry-level jobs in any one degree's field, but there are a ton of even loosely related fields that people could tap into. You don't HAVE to be tied down to the field that your degree is in, and I think that's great. A college education isn't necessarily limited to what your classes were. Having the dedication to go through college and commit to finishing with decent grades already says much about a person.

 

[bitsy]

I'm an archaeologist and the entry-level qualification is now an undergraduate degree. It makes no sense to the "people on the ground" in the industry, as they have fresh graduates turning up on their sites who can write 5000 word essays on Actor Network Theory but can't half-section a post hole.

Commercial units get round this by specifying between 6 months and 2 years of professional experience for all jobs, meaning that the vast majority of fresh archaeology graduates now have no hope of getting their first job unless the can afford to intern for free with a commercial unit for at least 6 months.

The current situation makes no sense for anyone. The industy can't get fresh blood with the right practical skills. The graduates have run up massive debts or spent a vast amount of money on their degree and find that they can't get a job even though the have the correct paper qualification that everyone demands. Universities are tearing their hair out because they know they're not giving people the right skills, but fieldwork is hugely expensive and there isn't the money to offer that kind of practical skills experience any more. Plus they're being pushed to be even more academic and theoretical, to increase the "intellectual value" of their "products".

As far as everyone can see, archaeology in the UK needs to take a step backwards in order for any of this to improve. We need practical skills-based courses which actually provide the kind of training an employer needs. Trouble is, nobody wants to do that. The archaeological industry already has more experienced archaeologists than there are jobs. Universities don't want to lose a revenue stream or offer less intellectual courses.

At present, it feels like degree courses are a kind of three year holding pen for people who have no chance of getting a job straight out of school, simply because there aren't enough to go round.

I'm only doing a PhD because I can't get a job and I have enough savings left for an extra 18 months at uni (funds will run out before I complete). I'm scraping round for odd bits of paid work as I research, networking like a maniac and trying desperately to cobble together a credible CV.

 

[Guruofchem]

In the States it's no better - I teach school (back in a private after 7 years in a Title I public school) and educational policies are not anywhere close to turning out what that job market actually needs. Texas requires that to graduate on the "Recommended" plan all students have 4 years of both math and science - imagine how well that worked at a high school where 70%+ of students qualify as economically disadvantaged and have no interest, desire, or ability to handle advanced math or physics but are forced to anyway. Most selective, college prep schools require only 3 years of each, and that's a population chosen for academic ability!

Our abandonment of vocational education in the 1970s has resulted in a dearth of students ready to fill needed jobs in many fields (construction, automotive, clerical, etc.) in the misguided push by educational bureaucracies to prepare every student for college. College was never meant for every student, and everyone seems to understand that - except doctors of education...

 

[Outcast]

Guruofchem, I was going into Education as a career after I got out of the military. But, then I met some parents of children in the age class I would have been teaching, and decided not to become a teacher. I cannot stand adults who act worse than their 6 year old. I have since found my calling in Wildlife Science, and work during the summers for the US Fish and Wildlife service... Though with the sequestor happening, it doesn't look like I have much of a "garanteed" job after I graduate as they led me to believe when I applied for the program... But, I can continue in the Pathways program and get my Masters degree after I finish my bachelors, and hope that the economy picks back up... That should get me at least until the end of our current leadership in this country, and hopefully things will actually start turning for the better....

 

[Guruofchem]

Outcast -

Good luck to you! There are good reasons many individuals veer away from teaching careers either before they begin or during the first few years. Fully half of all new teachers leave within the first five years, and I'm seeing more and more schools run to take economic advantage of that fact; just churn and burn them while they are cheap...

 

[Outcast]

I do plan on becoming a professor at a community college one day. That way I can throw people out of the class without having to deal with childish parents... Most people I will be dealing with will be adults and will learn from day one that I expect them to act as such. LOL.

 

[Alli_Draggy]

I wish I could tell you that you won't have to deal with childish parents. Unfortunately, my experience (as a college music ed professor who mostly taught upper division students) is that you'll STILL have little Janie Angel's mommy calling to find out why the mean professor won't let her student teach. After all, it's not little Janie's fault that her sorority life kept her too busy to do the required observation hours...

And many such parents are now savvy enough (or are by the time their kids get to 3rd year) to actually have paperwork on file allowing them to talk directly to the professors (if they don't, legally a professor cannot talk to them without the student's permission, unless the student is under 18).

Not to mention childish young adults....Sigh...I have to say it's kind of nice to just be homeschooling now.

My general rule of thumb is "Don't go into debt for any undergraduate degree involving caring for people or animals"-because they won't pay enough to make it worth it. I'd also add basically any non STEMs field to that now-all those LA and fine arts degrees, where honestly teaching is about the best you're going to do without a lot of luck. If your typical job only starts at 30K, don't go to a 50K/yr room/board/tuition/fees school, no matter how ivy covered or prestigious. It's not worth it.

There are still less expensive schools out there-and some are quite good. You just have to look-but for the most part, you won't get name recognition on the degree. You'll get "And where is that, again??"-because they won't be the Division I sports schools or the Ivy league-and those are the two classifications that most people recognize.

For grad school, especially if it will end with a MD or DVM, it might be worth it to go into debt-some PhD fields as well, although not all (PhD in Clinical Psychology is worth more than a PhD in History). Law school-unless you have a family member who already has a thriving practice...don't bother. It's a flooded market.



I'm really hoping things turn around before Allidraggy is old enough to worry about college.

--Donna

 

[Zombiegirl]

I agree with Alli_draggy. It's not just MD or DVM...it's techs and nurses also. I currently am working in a vet clinic and am close to finishing my classes to get my certification. There is a school here in town (I did NOT go to this school) that is a "private" school that only cares about quanity, not quality...they have a revolving door and will let literally anyone in their program, and will pass anyone regardless of their skill level...speaking from personal experience in dealing with one of these individuals and having it leave a really bitter taste in my mouth (she was HORRIBLE, bold face lied to all of us, hardly knew how to do anything even after being shown multiple times etc...dispite our efforts to point this out, they passed her anyway because they have to meet their 'quota'), the amount of money these people are paying for the education they are recieving (which is HORRIFIC), should be criminalized. Seriously...if I wanted to pay that kind of money, I would attend a 4 year university.

Because of this school and one similar to it, the area where I live is SATURATED with techs and students...the girl that made my sandwich at Blimpie's yesterday is attending said school and 25 of the 30 people in her classes are in the "Vet Tech" program...she is thinking about changing her major, which is really sad to me because she REALLY wants to do this, but there are so many "graduates' and wanna-be's that it's almost impossible to find a tech job here anymore...thank the gods I have a secure job in a clinic already.

 

[obboi34]

I'm trying to enter zookeeping and it seems that i'll need at least a master's before i can have the esteemed job of poop scooper and food maker. as it is, my BA has landed me foodservice, one previous zoo gig, and Petco. it is not easy out there.

 

[MegF.]

Getting a degree doesn't have to cost you a million dollars and frankly....if you want to be a window washer or work at Red Lobster for life...I'm doubting you'll need one. However, if you want to get somewhere other than that, yes you need a degree and preferably one in the field you're interested in. I have two degrees, but it didn't cost a fortune. Most junior colleges have an AA or AS degree program and you can get those with very little expense. I believe it cost me around $3,000 total for my AS in radiological sciences that got me my job in the hospital as an x-ray tech. Of course, I already had a degree from before so didn't have to do so many prereq's as other students would fresh out of high school. While my first degree (AA in mechanical drafting) didn't get me a job, it still provided me with valuable education and skills I could use elsewhere. I also had changed my major a couple of times before pursuing the drafting venue and learned a lot of skills from that, that was of benefit later (sign language, physiology and anatomy). My degree in X-ray of course got my my new career and although I am no longer working in that field, I'll never regret that training...if nothing else I use my film reading skills in my job as a barefoot trimmer and working with the vets.
Obbo: You absolutely need a high level degree if you choose to work in a specialized field such as zoo keeping or even something like forest ranger. If all it's landed you so far is petco, then that's where you start...although if I were you I'd stick with food preparer and pooper scooper at the venue you WANT to work, not the one you don't. While all experience is valuable, employers are going to look at experience at the place they work. If you show that you've worked for zoos, they are much more apt to hire you then the guy that worked at petco....just the facts. It's either that or you make your own job or business....nuisance animal removal or start your own tv show! Whatever you want...you have to make it happen though...a degree doesn't mean that you're guaranteed a job, it just improves the chances and you have to choose one that will get you a paycheck to pay your bills.

 

[Nanci]

Not going as far as a Bachelor's is actually a good move for a lot of people. This was a very interesting read, http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/26/pf/college/community-college-earnings/index.html .

Nice article. I have an AAS degree in Radiography. Someone was telling me the other day that Physical Therapy was entry level with a doctorate now! And I know that Speech Therapy is entry level with a masters, with many continuing on to a doctorate. If I wanted to progress higher up into management, a BS is required/encouraged, but at my place of employment, if they like a candidate, they will hire and allow the person to earn the degree on the job. I'm just extremely happy with my job that I have now.

I think my point is, with an associate degree, you can make _quite_ a nice living, probably better than most four year degrees [in other fields] in radiography or other radiology-related fields, at least.

 

[Outcast]

Unfortunately that is the way it is going MegF. I really wish that more people went to trade schools, and that those were looked at more highly... Those schools teach you a skill. The main skill that college teaches students is "how to take a test" <according to one of my professors. And, that skill is null in real life. Which is why I am glad that my degree requires that I get some real life experience as an intern with whatever department will take me. I got lucky and was accepted into the SCEP, now Pathways program with USFWS... And while I do not agree with some of the stuff they get passed as law (ie. Pythons added to the Lacey act), I do enjoy the actual job of trying to help endangered species thrive in an area where they once thrived.

But, back to my point. Sometimes I wish that I had gone to a trade school first, that way I could at least have a skill set to fall back on if need be.

 

[MegF.]

No one says you can't go to a trade school now. I went back to school in my 40's and did well. Nanci: Speech therapy has always been a master's degree since you diagnose and treat. I looked into that years ago as it was always a fun study to do. I think I've done as many videos as some of those speech therapist's have!

 

[MegF.]

Didn't realize you were an X-ray tech too! I left the hospital in November when they imposed a mandatory flu shot policy. I miss the job but enjoy what I'm doing now too.

 

[Outcast]

I am lucky to have friends around here who have experience in various trades and are willing to teach me. I will be learning carpentry from one of them this year. We are building a kitchen island for my wife, she has wanted one since we got married.

I have another who does pottery and wants to teach me how to do that, and another who is a blacksmith, and is willing to teach me that... All three are things that I have always wanted to learn...LOL

 

[MegF.]

Just as long as you can find work in them. I have a friend who's a carpenter who is having a hard time having business right now. The economy takes a dive and people stop building and making custom stuff. The three skills might be enough to get your bills paid though!

 

[Outcast]

To me they would be hobbies, and I would rather furnish my house with stuff that I build, than store bought stuff. I could also take my wares to the farmers markets and sell little bits at a time. I also hope to get some land that I can farm and set up a little home produce stand like what my grandfather has. One day I hope to be entirely self sufficient, no bills, just myself and my family, taking care of ourselves and teaching others how to do the same...

 

[bitsy]

My brother's a plumber and gas fitter and has never been out of work. Total replacement or upgrades of heating systems have dropped since the recession started, but pipes always burst and leak, and heating systems break down and need maintenance. He left school at 15 with next to no paper qualifications, did a four year apprenticeship. Frm the time he finished that, he's always earned more than me. I have streets more academic qualifications and before becoming an archaeologist I worked for global IT facilities and national finance companies. My parents have always claimed I'm "the clever one" but frankly I reckon they have it very wrong indeed!

If you can develop a skill or talent that people will always need, you'll never go hungry.