• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

What are we?

I

isis11

New member
I got a surprise (aka unplanned) clutch this year and out of 18 eggs, two made it. I'm thrilled since I've never had nor planned on having eggs. Parents are a Creamsicle and a Snow (hets unknown. They just hatched this weekend, and therefore haven't shed yet, but I don't know what they are going to be. Can anyone tell me what these little guys/girls are going to look like?

Hatchling1.jpg


IMG_0131.jpg
 
They look like nice little Amels. but that's just my opinion. My creamsicle clutch is hatching out right now, and they're a lot more orange than those guys are.
 
Going by the info you gave for the parents they will be Creamsicles het (carrying, but not showing, the gene for) Anery :) Hope that helps.

Pretty babies you have there :D

Best wishes,
 
Both the creamsicle and snow carry the amel gene. I'd say your babies are amel.
 
Technically they are creamsicles since they are amel and have emoryi rat snake in them. Even if they look like "normal" amel corns, they are creams. To me - they don't look like "normal" amel corns - but they haven't shed yet, so hard to judge.

And as stated, they are het anery.

Congrats! They are very pretty.
 
FunkyRes said:
Technically they are creamsicles since they are amel and have emoryi rat snake in them. Even if they look like "normal" amel corns, they are creams. To me - they don't look like "normal" amel corns - but they haven't shed yet, so hard to judge.

And as stated, they are het anery.

Congrats! They are very pretty.
Click to expand...

I thought the creamsicles were a 50/50 cross, and wouldn't this be 75corn/25emoryi, so not REALLY a true creamsicle, but a diluted creamsicle?
 
My understanding is that any amel corn with *any* emoryi blood is a creamscicle, that there is not a name for the 75/25 cross.
 
FunkyRes said:
My understanding is that any amel corn with *any* emoryi blood is a creamscicle, that there is not a name for the 75/25 cross.
Click to expand...

But I thought that when you crossed an amel corn with an emoryi, and the baby was "normal", it was a Rootbeer. I know there's not a name for the 75/25 as of yet, but i don't refer to them as pure creamsicles. Just a personal preference.
 
They are creamsicles. Anything with even the tiniest drop of other blood is a hybrid/Intergrade to me. :) (Yes, I know, that's just about everything).
 
Yeah - I don't particularly like the naming convention - root beer if it is a "normal", creamsicle if it is amel, etc. - I personally wish there was ONE name for snakes with heritage from both and the morphs were used as an adjective for that ONE name (IE amel root beer, snow root beer, bloodred root beer, whatever root beer)

But I've seen numerous creamsicles listed as creams that are 75/25 cross etc. - I believe the trade has pretty much settled on any amel of that cross, regardless of the ratios, being called a cream.

Once you are past the F1 - you really don't know the ratios of genes from one species to the other anyway, as it will vary. Only the F1 cross will have exact known ratios of where the genes come from. While highly highly unlikely, it is theoretically possible for an F2 to have all it's genes from one species and none from the other. I highly doubt it ever has happened, but it's possible. So an F2 cross of 50/50 may actually be 63/37 - with 63% of the unique genes (genes not in both species gene pools) being corn in origin opposed to rat, etc.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
But I thought that when you crossed an amel corn with an emoryi, and the baby was "normal", it was a Rootbeer. I know there's not a name for the 75/25 as of yet, but i don't refer to them as pure creamsicles. Just a personal preference.
Click to expand...

"Pure" Creamsicles is rather a contradiction in terms, seeing as they're not pure anything :)

The 75/25 animals do have a name - "Creamsicle" for Amels, "Rootbeer/Copper" for normals, "Cinnamon" for Hypos, "Buttercream" for Caramel Amels and so on.

Those hybrid names apply whether it's 50/50 Corn/Emoryi or if it's 99.22/0.78 Corn/Emoryi - they don't denote percentage, just known hybrid parentage.
 
i don't refer to them as pure creamsicles
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as a "pure" Creamsicle. A hybrid is a hybrid, regardless of what percentage of Emoryi blood it has. If it looks like an Amel then it's a Creamsicle and if it looks like a Normal it's a Rootbeer.

You definitely couln't sell those hatchlings as Amels as they're not full-blood Corns.
 
It worries me, a novice snake owner to think I'd get an intergrade, but not marked as such because the breeder wasn't honest enough to tell prospective buyers thir snakes MAY have something other then corn blood running through the veins of thir babies. How can someone who isn't totally versed in hybrids know if in fact they ARE getting a hybrid or a pure corn?
 
I think it depends on what you are planning on doing with the snake--if you just plan on having the snake as a pet then the creamsicle snake will probably be a wonderful snake and not a lot different if at all then an amel corn. Only if you plan on breeding the snake--and then you probably want to be more sure about the background about the snake. JMO
 
Only if you plan on breeding the snake--and then you probably want to be more sure about the background about the snake. JMO
Click to expand...

The trouble is - to be Rumsfeldian about it - you won't know that you don't know.

If you've bought a snake marked as an "Amel Corn" that's actually a Creamsicle but looks like an Amel, then you're going to believe the label and potentially turn out the next generation of wrongly-identified snakes, in complete ignorance of the mistake.

I get a bit paranoid about this sort of thing as a breeder myself. I not only list the hatchling's morph and 100% hets on the tub label, I also list the parents and their hets. That way, my buyers have as much visibility as I can give them of the hatchling's ancestry and genetic make-up.
 
To me it isn't about breeding. It's more about honesty in the product your selling. If I were to buy an amel corn, That's what I as the buyer would expect. There are many people who got into corns without thinking about breeding, then down the line decided they'd like to get into the game also. But how can they if they aren't 100% sure they have pure blood corns?

And I"m not talking about myself either. I have 4 corns and thinking about adding another but all for pets, no breeding projects in the future for me.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts compliments and responses. I too was expecting these hatchlings to be creamsicles and look like their creamsicle father, but they just don't look like that (yet.) Regardless of what they look like, and I do think they are beautiful, I'm just super happy to have had any of the eggs make it :)

Kimbrya, these were unplanned eggs because these two snakes have lived together for the 8 years my husband has had them and the female has never laid eggs before, that and he's never brumated them either. Needless to say, we were unprepared for eggs and didn't know what to do with them.

Thanks again all!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top