Who has outcrossed a stripe to a non-stripe or motley and made F2's?

[Hurley]

Humor me, everyone, please.

We are currently assuming that motley and stripe are allelic genes and that motley dominates stripe in the het situation. The crosses have certainly followed that trend. For my own piece of mind, I just have to know that the possibility that stripe is a modifier of motley (a separate gene) is off the table.

Has anyone outcrossed a stripe to something that was definitley not homo or het for motley or stripe, then crossed those to make F2s? Were the mutant animals recovered always stripe (or cube)? Never any motleys?

If there were motleys recovered, that would make it seem that there is a separate modifier that can be split off, such that motley = mmSS or mmSs and stripe = mmss, while normals could be MmSS, MmSs, Mmss, MMSS, MMSs, or Mmss.

If stripes are only recovered, then they are alleles or at least very, very closely linked. Motley = m/m or m/s, Stipe = s/s, Normal = M/M, M/m, M/s.


I don't expect this to be the answer, but I won't be able to sleep at night until the possibility is eliminated from the table.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Me, Me, Me, Me!!!!!

I bred an Amel Striped X Lavender Het Amel and saved 1.1 Amels het Striped Lav, and 1.4, Hets for Striped Opal. I raised them up and of course, bred them together. I have produced Stripes and Cubes from them, but nothing that could possibly be considered a Motley.

It seems as if Rich Hume, had very similar results from his Striped Blood Project. You can not produce Motleys from Stripes, which is what you are pondering over I think. I also have a project that will be producing this year, where I bred an Ice X Anery Striped. I have 2.5 Anerys het for Striped Lava that will be producing this year, so we can see if we get similar results. I also have some Hets for Striped Lava Lavender which would also satisfy your question, that will be producing later this year.

If I had never seen a Motley that looked like a Motley/Cubed, I would say that Cubes are just a variation of Striped, but I have a feeling for some reason that they are actually an allele to Motley. The main reason is that I have seen Stripes and Cubes come from the same clutches, but I have also seen only Cubes come from clutches too, which may have been a Cubed X Cubed breeding. The results I have seen seem to be from a Striped/Cubed X Cubed breeding and a Cubed X Cubed breeding. The numbers were just not there to be certain, but I have some hatching right now that are from a Cubed X Cubed breeding and so far, only Cubes have emerged.

We have to ask ourselves what the possibilities are with the Cubes. Since Motley is dominant over Striped, this does not necessarily mean that Motley will be dominant over Cubed. We have seen Motley that resemble Stripes, but do not have the Striped gene in them. We could also see this in Cubes, which would make us think they are from Stripes, but just have modifiers that cause Cubes to have striping.

We may have separated out a modifier in Stripes, that show us Cubes and Stripes when the modifier is present, but I am certain that there is not a modifier that changes Motleys into Stripes or visa versa.

 

[Snakexperience]

Very interesting!
I bred an anery stripe to a Miami looking normal this year. In the past the female has produced aztec when paired to a normal striped, so i'm very curious about what's going to hatch now.
Maybe i'll keep 1.2 of the offspring to test your theory's..

Arjan

 

[Hurley]

Thanks Joe. That certainly supports the allele theory for motley and stripe.

The motleys you say look like stripes, are you seeing some with the wide-striped pattern?

Funny how the pin-striped motleys seem to cling near stripe crosses, too. A wild hare theory to be disproven could also be that the tendency to pin-stripe is caused by some modifier gene, independently inherited, which is the same modifier gene that makes a stripe a cube. Sure isn't dominant or co-dominant if that's the case, so very well could be recessive.

(Edit to add: ) Of course pin-striping could be its very own modifier, in and of itself. Thinking about it some more, pin-striping seems to act more in a dominant or co-dominant tendency. I've bred pin-striped/q-tipped animals to motleys not from those type of lines and gotten striping in the F1s. Off to stew some more...

I don't know if I buy cubed as an allele yet or a modifier gene that shows major influence in stripes. Whether cube is a stripe allele or a modifier gene, all cube x cube crosses should produce all cubes. If it's a modifier gene, if you outcross a cube to a non-motley/non-stripe carrying animal, something that has no potential to carry the modifier gene as well, when you make F2s from the hets for cube, you should be able to break off the cube modifier in some of them and get back stripes and cubes as the mutant offspring. If cube is an allele to stripe (recessive to stripe and motley, most likely, since stripe x stripe can make a few cubes), then if you outcross to a no-hets normal and recover, you will never recover stripes, only cubes.

Fun, fun, fun.

Thank you Joe for taking the stripe = independent modifier gene of motley off the table for me. Now I can sleep at night on that issue.