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Wild caught, yay or nay?

Daeraelle

Daeraelle

New member
So, I was wondering what the consensus is on wild caught corn snakes. I know many are readily available for sale, that haven't been taken from the wild, but at the same time I've seen many wild caught corns that have a different look of normals hatched out of a clutch. Especially in certain areas, I know okeetee and miami localities are very distinguishable. But I've noticed this with other localities as well. For example, the corn snakes in south east Georgia, that is what my ideal image of a normal corn snake is. Dark, dark red and light orange with black boarders. I grew up seeing these, I guess a certain line that lived around the farm I grew up on. I haven't seen any pictures of normals that quite look the same, just a slight difference. I was offered over the phone today a wild caught corn of unknown locale/sex/size (I was told about 3 feet, but no weight, it supposedly looks healthy and it bites...) It may have gone from home to home for a little while. I considered it, and let them know if they were willing to bring it to me, I would take it. Is this looked upon as a bad thing, an ok thing, or just shrugged over as "it happens"?
 
Bottom line... theres more than enough corns in captivity, I would not consider anything WC.

I can understand that many of the morphs we know of today are from wild caught animals, but seriously, theres more than enough multi recessive combinations that haven't been worked on nevermind finding something new to shove in the mix!
 
The snake was offered for free to me by someone that knows I keep them. I don't think they're out to capture and sell wild corns on a regular basis. The snake had two owners before the current, and possibly even more. I don't know if it should be rereleased or just kept on. It was also unclear as to just how LONG the snake has been in captivity. I guess I'd rather see it taken care of than it to have to continue going from home to home. I'm personally not into catching and breeding wild corns. I probably won't ever breed it, as for all I know, it has no hets. I'm more interested in working with different morphs. I just didn't really know if it was something that was looked down on. Can you release a wild corn that has been kept in captivity?
 
In my opinion wild caughts are fine. They help in outcrossing and there is always the chance of new morphs/mutations. As long as you're not out collecting 200 a day to sell, I see no problem.
 
I don't think wild corns are in any danger of extinction or "threatened status" anytime soon, so I can't see the harm. I also can't see the harm in taking a snake that has been poorly treated for most of it's life, and providing it with a warm, friendly, safe, loving and appropriate environment to live out the rest of it's days. At the very least, it deserves to be respected wherever it ends up...

So, with that being said, it is my opinion that taking the snake in will guarantee, at least in your mind, that the snake will enjoy the rest of it's life. Passing it up could lead to a release in the wild(which I am POSITIVE it would survive), or further improper care.

I don't think it is quite the "moral dilemma" as it might be if it were a wc ball python or something. They have plenty of wild specimens still roaming around, and are certainly not in any immediate danger of extinction, so the moral quandry is virtually non-existent(except maybe among PETA supporters and the like). I think the decision should be based on; do you have room? Are you willing to work with an improperly treated snake? Are you willing to risk any possible health issues from past improper treatment? Do you WANT it? To me, those are the only questions that really need to be answered...and only you can really answer them honestly.

As far as wc vs. cb in general...I choose cb not because of any moral equation, but purely because of the genetics and color morphs available. You can bet that if I saw a Striped Amber or something in the wild, it would very quickly become a wild caught corn, rather than a wild corn ;)...
 
Many biologists believe that you should not release a reptile unless you can put it back pretty near right where it was taken from, and also that you can be assured that it has not had contact with other reptiles, either captive born, or from areas other than the catch and release area.

I agree with this because if you release it in a different area that is able to support corns (or whatever species is being considered for release), then there probably are already a sufficient number of that species already living there and adding more will probably not help either the resident snakes or the newly released snake, which will be at a disadvantage to compete with the already established snakes. The long term captive snake may also be in poor condition to suddenly cope with survival after a long time of lazy days in a cage. It only takes a moment of inattention to become a meal for a predator.

And if the snake has been exposed to other herps, it could now carry some type of disease or parasite that the local snakes have no immunity to.

I can't really see the upside of release for the snake. It should remain a captive, in my opinion.

OTOH, I had many w.c. corns in the "old days" before c.b. were readily available. They usually fared very well, ate fine, and tamed down most of the time. They are legal to catch in many states (but not in Ga!) and are not a rare species. Although I don't really want to encourage trade in w.c. herps, I think that if a few people collected one themselves for a pet, they would not make a dent in the local populations, but would learn a lot about their natural history and would understand certain things better than people who are used to seeing them only in deli cups or shoeboxes. I am not talking about commercial collection, just an occasional pet or new blood for a collection. That is my opinion based on living in Florida and seeing wild corns, and occasionally collecting them, since about 1979 or so.

If you decide to take it, you can take a fecal sample to a vet (even a cat and dog vet can tell you the general types of parasites it might have, but get a herp vet to treat it if treatment is needed). And quarantine it from other herps, at least for a couple of months or more.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the advice! I know of a herp vet in Jacksonville, but I've never yet had to take one of my snakes there. I'm still not for sure if it's coming or not. It's from another town here in Florida, and he knew someone that would be heading my way in the morning. So... who knows if it will even make it here? I know it probably has internal parasites, and just in case it has mites or anything else I was going to keep his tub in the garage, since it's not too hot or cold in the area right now. I keep calling the snake a he, but I have no idea what the sex is. I'll probably try to get some more information about him tomorrow. He's coming from Hilliard area, so who knows where he was actually collected. I'm just interested in seeing what he looks like. Hopefully I'll be able to get pictures of him tomorrow. I just put in the thing about Georgia corn snakes because it's where i grew up, and to me they stand out a little in looks. In Georgia it's even illegal to harass a native non venomous snake. So... no poking the hognoses! :poke: Though I remember doing this quite frequently as a child, lol.
 
Tula_Montage said:
Bottom line... theres more than enough corns in captivity, I would not consider anything WC.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with this. I just can't see the point of taking a wild animal from its habitat when there are any number of snakes that have been born in to the captivity system.

I don't think it would do much harm to the wild populations or anything like that... I just can't really see why you'd want to :shrugs:

On the other hand, if this snake for some reason can't be returned to the wild, then I'd consider it... but in general, I'm not a fan of WC.
 
Isn't it interesting that the couple people who aren't really interested in WC snakes are from a place in the world where there virtually aren't any? You've grown up and lived your lives without being able to walk out the door and catch a snake, so it must seem like such a strange, foreign behaviour!

My life in Florida, being a not just snake but all herps-lover, is constant temptation by beautiful wild animals. I respect each one's place in its own ecosystem, and do not want to disrupt that, as well as see each as taking up a slot that could be otherwise used by something "not from here." But still, when you have a gorgeous wild snake in your hands- there's a moment when you don't want to put it back...

Two of my five are from the wild- one caught by me- Maizey, and one a rescue, given to me- Addy.

Nanci
 
PS, I wonder what ever happened to Steve's Mom, and her gorgeous trio of WC corns from Florida. She hasn't been around since before brumation. I tried PMing her a month ago or so, but never heard back...

Nanci
 
Kathy has said it all. My very first corn was a wild-caught, my main zigzag line is from a pair of wc corns and I've had a few more in my possession for awhile. And if another one should happen to wander into my mice tanks to gorge itself, I'll probably keep that one too.
 
If I lived in an area where corns lived, and I found one in my yard like Nanci did, I to would be tempted to keep it. But since the only thing close to a corn we have up here is some sort of a rat snake, I dont' see myself getting a w/c snake anytime soon.

If I were put in the situation that someone offered me one that had not have such a great life in captivity up till now, you bet I'd jump at the chance to give the animal a life that was more comfortable then it was presently in and probably much better then it could ever live in the wild.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
 
Having grown up in the country where you can't legally collect any of our native reptiles now without special licenses, but being old enough to remember when you could walk into your local pet shop and buy them, I'll admit to being insanely jealous! I took my boys to some of my favorite herping sites when they were younger and showed them how to catch lizards and slow worms, see how lovely they were and release them. Those sites have been degraded now into estate-type housing, so I'd firmly believe that habitat destruction is far more damaging to wild populations than any collection from a healthy ecosystem.
All the current corns in captivity are only a few steps away from wild-caught, so there's no moral superiority in owning them rather than a specimen that has the chance to thrive and pass on it's genes in captivity after it's been collected. Without the original collection from the wild, none of the current captive stock would be available :shrugs:
 
It's my impression, though I might be mistaken, that in many species, the mutations show up in a "freak" WC specimen- leucistic, albino, etc. Without these WC animals being brought into captivity, who knows how long these mutations would take to show up.

Nanci
 
Well, the past owner decided he felt bad about passing the snake along. So, he's the owner of the snake again. I didn't even get to see it! I was so excited. I wanted to at least get a look at it. Oh well, at least I know I could have given it a good home. At least I think so, lol. Now I won't feel bad if I run across a uniquely colored corn in the wild and decide to add it to my collection. That's very unlikely though, in the three years I've been living on this island I haven't seen one snake, not even DOR. I think the overdevelopement in this area has completely destroyed the snake habitat.
 
Daeraelle said:
Amelia Island, lol. I was named after it actually.
Click to expand...

Just looked it up on Google Earth, looks like a beautiful place to live, bet the fishing is great as well.

I grew up in North Ga and seen my first corn in the back yard up there. It was the most beautiful snake i have every seen, Seemed to glow almost radiate its color, We had just had a light rain and it had a toad in its mouth.It was years before i seen another after i moved here i found one in a pet shop one day.

I prefer WC over CB because i prefer the normal markings and variations found in different areas of their home range. I have 10 corns 7 are WC.
2 from MikeB in Clearwater, FL. 2 from David Hiscock in Port St Lucie, FL. 2 from Davenport, FL. 1 found in the yard at my house, My other corns are CB Normal, Snow, and Creamsicle.
 
I miss seeing snakes. I grew up in SE Georgia. We had corn snakes (which of course are just "red rat snakes" around there) grey rat snakes and we had a few indigos on our property at one time when I was young. They disappeared though. Black racers everywhere, lol. My parents have a 159 acre "farm". It's half farm, and the rest is just woods. There is a pond, a creek, a sandhill (loads of gophers around there) and just a mixture of hardwood and pine. I've seen a LOT of wildlife there. Since moving to Florida the only snakes I've seen are the ones I bought, lol.
 
I have a small dilema with WC.. I have a strong preference for not wantint them in my collection, as we have many, many CB's to pick from. I also understand Kathy's perspective that the intrduction of fresh blood is also an excellent idea.. Of course I make a conciose effort to get animals from different sources that are very likely to have seperate blood lines, in hopes of insuring that the animals genetic back remains heavily diverse.. Granted I am fortunante enough to live in a country where there are so many different breeders with a vast amount of blood lines everywhere.. Sometimes it is a little harder when it comes to the morphs but different areas of the country has its own developed strains..

I guess to sum it up, I am not totally against WC, for the sake of adding fresh blood to a line, but I am not for harvesting animals from the wild for ones own gain.. Heavens know there are enough breeders out that producing a lot of Classics..

Regards.... Tim of T and J
 
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