Winter cooling...

[ratsnakehaven]

I guess the reason I'm posting is because it's getting cold outside and in my back porch snake room. I have several new corn snakes, plus the other corns and Emory's rats that I keep, that are and will be going through a winter cool down. I know most corn snake hobbyists probably don't cool their snakes and use other heat sources to keep them active all winter, but I can only do so much of that. My Herp Room indoors stays in the low 70's/high 60's most of the winter. I do use undertank heat tapes on some of the tanks, so that the snakes can digest if I feed them. It might raise the temp to near 80*F. for the digesting snake. We also have a problem with humidity, as we live in southern AZ. It gets really dry in winter sometimes, so I have to run a humidifier. I also put humid hides in the cages to help. I'm wondering if others have problems keeping their snakes warm enough and humid enough in winter? Does that affect the breeding possibilities? Do you keep on feeding and still do breeding in spring?

When I look at the conditions in the wild for ratsnakes in southern states it seems that most snakes have to deal with much different conditions in the wintertime and should be able to adapt. I'm just wondering how stressful it can be for snakes to go from very warm and humid summer conditions to cool and dry winter conditions? I know that in AZ and southern TX the ratsnakes are opportunistic, in that they will take advantage of the warm spells, but they will probably brumate when conditions and too hostile. Any opinions on whether it is better to brumate or stay active under my conditions? Should I just let the snakes make the choice?

Thanks for any replies. I'm not as familiar with corns as I am with other ratsnakes and I'm still getting used to the conditions in AZ, since moving here from the Midwest. BTW, I hope this is the best forum for this type of question (smile).

Regards, Terry Cox/ratsnakehaven

 

[carnivorouszoo]

I'm in MO, more humidity almost all the time compared to you lol. And my snakes are kept in my living room where I keep the temp between 78 and 83 all year round. I never cool, don't have a place to. First winter with an adult. I am cutting back his feeding frequency for a couple of months, but that is the only change. The others stay on the schedule I figured out for them. I bred last spring without cooling and not stopping feeding and had a nice clutch, though I had not planned it. Poor bin labeling led to a male accidentally being put with a female and they hooked up before I could seperate them. Lots of people breed corns with out cooling for the winter. Of course it depends on your circumstances.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Thanks for the reply...

My snakes are forced to cool down since my indoor snake room is fairly cool in winter. Also, I don't have the cages set up for extra heat, except for the few UTH's, under tank heat tapes that I use with the snakes that have eaten. It has worked in the past, but that was before I got corn snakes. I know corns digest better at temps over 80*F. The choice I have is to keep things the same or to brumate the snakes. I'm thinking they don't really need to brumate to be productive, so keeping somewhat warm over winter won't hurt them, except they'll need to eat once inawhile. I'm sure they'll make it through the winter, ok, but I also want to be able to breed them in the spring. In other words, I'm worried about what the best wintering conditions are for snakes to be able to breed in the spring. Since I don't have much of a choice here, I'll probably keep them going. I hope feeding about once every three weeks will be suitable under these conditions.

PS: I wonder why I can't edit my posts. Am I doing something wrong, or is this the way for everyone? Thanks for all the help... :wavey:

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Can't edit if you are not a supporting member. It's only $25 a year

I think they need to be kept in the 50's in order for a proper brumation. I hope someone will come along and be able to help out. I'm out of my area of know how.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Can't edit if you are not a supporting member. It's only $25 a year

I think they need to be kept in the 50's in order for a proper brumation. I hope someone will come along and be able to help out. I'm out of my area of know how.

Ahh! Thanks...I forgot about that...

My porch (AZ Room) gets in the 50-60*F. range at night and warms up during the day. This brumation works for some of my snakes, but it lasts for over three months, which I think is a little long for most of my corn snakes. Some, like the Boot Key rosy rats, are from a subtropical climate and not used to brumating for that long, or that cold. They can't eat at those temps either. I'm trying to create the best conditions for them in my Herp Room and hopefully will be able to breed them in the spring.

Last year, I did this with my green ratsnakes. They ate until January, then I put them into brumation mode. They only brumated for about two months in the AZ Room. The female didn't get gravid in the spring, however, which leaves me to wonder if I did something wrong. Maybe this species needs to brumate a little longer, but they can't stand temps too low for very long. I think corns are a little more hardy than green rats, but I don't think I want to brumate for over three months, maybe two months will be better.

Anyway, I think this is a good topic, and I was wondering how other corn snake lovers feel about it, and what they do in winter. I'll stick with it and work more on the details. Check back later to see if there's any additional info.

:bird:

 

[dickdeuel]

It sounds like you got a pretty good handle on what to do. I'm jealous that you have green rats. I've been talking to people but haven't sprung for them yet.

Something that more and more breeders are doing is setting up a more extreme temperature range for their snakes. The cool end (room temperature) is in the 50 to 60 degree range and the warm end in the upper seventies. The snake is free to choose to cool for a period or be fed on occasion and digest on the warm end and return to the cool end. I think this mimics the natural cycle for snakes found in the states along the southern border like Arizona and Texas. I probably shouldn't mention this on this forum, but I have talked to some that are keeping their breeding pairs together like this and getting improved results.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

It sounds like you got a pretty good handle on what to do. I'm jealous that you have green rats. I've been talking to people but haven't sprung for them yet.

The green rats are wild caught. They come from the mtns nearby. Last year was my first try at breeding them. In AZ we're allowed to keep four, but not allowed to sell them. Others have bred them, so I know it isn't supposed to be very hard.

Something that more and more breeders are doing is setting up a more extreme temperature range for their snakes. The cool end (room temperature) is in the 50 to 60 degree range and the warm end in the upper seventies. The snake is free to choose to cool for a period or be fed on occasion and digest on the warm end and return to the cool end. I think this mimics the natural cycle for snakes found in the states along the southern border like Arizona and Texas. I probably shouldn't mention this on this forum, but I have talked to some that are keeping their breeding pairs together like this and getting improved results.

That is exactly what I think the best idea is. I don't have a system (yet) for warming all the cages in winter, however. Maybe I'll just buy more UTH'S and heat more cages, just at one end. I know most folks just use a rack system, but I like to be able to view my snakes and use all-glass tanks. Thanks for the great reply.

PS: I also have Mexican night snakes, Pseudelaphe flavirufus. This is a tropical species and I want to keep them going all winter. So far, the UTH has worked for them. They have eaten and digested well, even at about 70*F. room temp.

Later.... :cheers:

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Brumating update....

I've found a solution to my "cool season" problem. I put a space heater in my Herp Room (10 x 12 ft. study) to go with the humidifier. The space heater has a regulator on it, so it will turn off when the room temp reaches the target temp. The humidifier will keep the humidity at 30%, or higher, and the heater will keep the temp in the 75-80*F. range. It works great and the snakes are loving it, not to mention it feels good to me too.

I also have a number of UTH's that I put under cages that have snakes digesting meals. Temps at one end of cage will be getting to 82/83*F., approximately. All my snakes are digesting fine under these conditions. I can turn the electronics off before I go to bed and let things cool down overnight, which takes a little while to do. I think this will work well for the three months that I need it for. [I might mention that I have to cool the back porch a little in summer to keep the room temps in the 82-83*F. range during the hottest parts of the day, so the snakes are used to these conditions.]

In my Brumation Room (back porch) things are going well too, so far. I've put all my kings and northern Emory's rats and the Slowinski's corns into brumation already. Nighttime temps are getting down to 58-60*F. and only up to about 65*F. during the day. The lowest temps last winter were only 50*F., so I'm sure this will work well for three months of brumation. This system is working pretty well for me and I hope the extra info might come in handy for others too. Looking forward to spring and another breeding season...

La Salle County, TX, female thornscrub rat, soaking in her water jug...

:dancer:

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Wow, if it weren't for the eyes I would say that was an anery or ghost corn lol, very pretty!

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Thanks, but I don't do any mutations of corn snakes, except an albino form that I got from Carol back in '05. I'm mostly a locality ratsnake guy..LOL.

Here's one of the normal Miami's I got from Carol, as a baby...

This is a hybrid corn I made (rootbeer) from crossing the Miami with a South TX thornscrub rat....

I like these rootbeers quite a bit and hope to make some similar looking creamsicles in the future.

:bird: