your opinions on feeding

[robeyeshua]

call me stubborn - but - wanted, your opinions - i know the munson plan and am presently using it - my question is this - gotta boa that eats weekly - out of convenience, was just wondering what are the downsides of feeding my corn on 7 day cycle instead of 5 or 6 - just thought it would be easier if i fed both on same day - at any rate - whats the science on it - not that i doubt he has an excellent plan in place - again just wanted opinions on what i lose if i move to 7 day feeding - snake is presentlt about 5 months old about 16 grams - taking 2 petco pinks which total 4 grams every 5 then 6 - do i really hurt the snake if i use his weights for changing sizes but feed on 7 days - just want your thoughts - basically - convince me why i shouldn't??

 

[Suzy]

To begin, if you have a young corn, feeding every 7 days will cause it to grow very slowly. My first Corn was on the maintenance diet, and at one year old, he was 12 grams. He gained weight quickly under my care, and is now pushing 350 grams easily. (it's been a while since i've weighed him.) He is an '07, and I got him in June of '08, just for reference.
I think you should stick to feeding your Corn every 5-6 days. He would probably be OK with 7 days once he's up to hoppers or weaned mice.

 

[Asbit]

Here are my thoughts, based on what I have learned and experienced.

Think of it this way, when they are this little they are just like human babies. They are growing and developing rapidly. They really should have the extra nutrients for good proper development of all parts of their systems. Essentially what you are describing is a maintenance diet.

Will you kill your snake feeding it that conservatively? NO
Will it grow? YES
Will it grow as healthily as it could, in your captive care? NO
In the wild would it get regular feeds every 5 days? NO
Is it a wild snake? NO

I ordered 3 snakes from a breeder, one was 6 mths old and 2 were 4 mths old. They were obviously maintenance fed or less. Their feeding records showed that most feeds were 7 days apart.

The 6 mth old snake came to me at 8gms, having been fed 15 times! He was so thin I could see his back bone. His shape was like a triangle, back bone ridge as the top point and then his belly sides as the other two points. He was approx. 7-8 inches long.

One of the two 4 mth old snake was 6gms, having been fed 6 times! Fortunately, he was not a triangle, he had a proper shape but was only about 4 inches long.

The other 4 mths old snake was 9gms, having been fed 8 times! She was also a proper shape and very short approx. 4-5 inches.

Since I have had them they have been fed every 4-5 days(to help them catch up) and the 6 mth old is now a proper shape(like a loaf of bread, rounded on the top or back and the bottom or belly is the shape of the rest of the piece of bread) he now weighs 22 gms, having 7 feeds here and will now only be fed every 5 days.

The 4mth old girl is now 16 gms after 6 feeds here and will be fed every 5 days from this point on.

The 4 mth old boy is now only 10 gms after 6 feeds but that is because I did not pay attention one day and gave him the wrong snake's meal, which because he was so hungry and snakes are opportunistic he ate, even though it was too much for him and he regurged so he is currently on the regurge therapy feeding plan and is only allowed to eat 1/3 of what he should every 7 days. This was my fault though, I tried to do to many things at one time and made a mistake. Even with my error the feeds he was getting before the mistake helped him to gain 3 gms before he regurged and then he has gained a gram since. So for the 6 feeds I gave him vs the 6 feeds the breeder gave him he has gained 4 gms and he came here at 6 gms.

To me these 3 baby snakes are all the scientific proof I need that shows they are very much like humans and are going through rapid growth and if not feed frequently can be stunted and I also have concerns that the lack of nutrition they received in their most crucial growing period may impact their ability to reproduce and they were bought to be breeding stock!

I just hope that they will not be like humans and have future health issues because of the lack of good frequent nutrition in their rapid growth stage.

 

[danielle]

I actually think 2 pinks every 7 days is fine and only feed most of mine that often. None are thin or even small for their age so I don't see why a 2 day difference would cause a serious stunting of growth at all. They don't eat that often in the wild and their also not obese or anerexic in the wild though in captivity a fat snake is not rare. If you want to go to every 7 days go for it and monitor their weight.

 

[Nanci]

How inconvenient is it to take 2 minutes to thaw out a pinky mouse? Any of my babies eat in five minutes or less. If it's a hassle to have to go buy the mice or something, just buy a larger quantity on-line, from a shop or at a show. How big is your boa? Could you switch the boa to every ten days??

 

[Nanci]

They don't eat that often in the wild

How do you know? My babies that eat every five days are out and active after one or two days. If they were out in the wild, they'd be eating anything they found.

 

[danielle]

I think the opportunity to find a pinky in the wild is a little slimmer meaning they probably ingest somewhat larger meals and eat fewer meals than in captivity. Most of my snakes are out 2-3 days after a meal, but roaming doesn't always equal hunger. They try to escape, look at each other, and explore, but it doesn't mean they need to eat just because they are out. My hatchlings get 1-2 pinks once a week and have grown rather quickly shedding every 3-4 weeks. My yearlings get a weanling or two every 7 days and are well over the 150 gram mark being fed every 7 days as well so hearing stories of 12 gram yearlings based on a 7 day feeding schedule sounds pretty fishy to me. Maybe the meal is too small, but I doubt changing the frequency of a feeding by 1-2 significantly impairs growth

 

[Suzy]

I think the opportunity to find a pinky in the wild is a little slimmer meaning they probably ingest somewhat larger meals and eat fewer meals than in captivity. Most of my snakes are out 2-3 days after a meal, but roaming doesn't always equal hunger. They try to escape, look at each other, and explore, but it doesn't mean they need to eat just because they are out. My hatchlings get 1-2 pinks once a week and have grown rather quickly shedding every 3-4 weeks. My yearlings get a weanling or two every 7 days and are well over the 150 gram mark being fed every 7 days as well so hearing stories of 12 gram yearlings based on a 7 day feeding schedule sounds pretty fishy to me. Maybe the meal is too small, but I doubt changing the frequency of a feeding by 1-2 significantly impairs growth

I understand where you're coming from. However, I was told that the Corn I bought (on June 7, 2008) was an '07, and when I came home to weigh him, he was 12½ grams. :shrugs: If you want to see what he looked like when I got him, here is the first thread I posted of him: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68663
I would say based on how bright he was at that age that he wasn't a hatchling Corn, as a normal Motley would have been a bit darker than that. (more maroons and less orange)
The only thing that could have been wrong was that the place told me the wrong year he was born, but I don't think that's very likely, to be honest. He was fed a single pinky once every 7 days prior to me getting him.

 

[danielle]

I didn't think you were lying, but you just answered my question. Feeding a yerling a pinky was the problem because that is too small a meal and not the 7 day schedule. My yearlings are all on weanlings and between 154- 209 grams which is good size for an 08 I think? Not sure what everyone else's weigh, but they don't look sickly or gaunt. My point is if the OP is feeding an appropriately sized prey item or items every 7 days ggrowth is not going to be inhibited

 

[Nanci]

Actually, in the wild, they'd be eating baby anoles, which are abundant. I see tens of them on any given day just walking around the patio.

 

[Suzy]

Yeah - that was definitely the problem, which is why in my first post I wrote that he was on a maintenance diet (feeding the least possible amount of food to let the snake live). I should have clarified that that's what he was eating.
That does sound like a good size to me. I have an '08 who is around 60 grams right now, but she's gaining weight steadily.

As for the other point you made in your post (which I forgot to comment on), as far as I know when Corns are hatchlings, they typically eat Anoles and other small lizards, correct? I know that there is quite an abundance of small lizards that a hatchling Corn could find out in the wild. I wouldn't be surprised if they eat more frequently than once every 7 days, but I don't have the scientific data to back it up. I do agree that finding one or two pinkies every 5 - 6 days would be difficult, but finding an Anole in that span of time probably wouldn't prove to be very difficult.

To the OP: Whatever you choose for your Corn is your own choice. Like I said previously, I wouldn't change it to 7 days until your Corn is on Hoppers or Weanlings, but in the end you're going to make the decision.

 

[danielle]

Good point Suzy in areas where lizards are readily avilable at least in spring in summer when their hatching they probably could eat more often easily. In Maryland we have corns not that I've ever seen one, but I wonder what they eat since we have no anoles? Maybe salmanders?

 

[Suzy]

Danielle, I just took a look at Maryland's reptiles, and if I had to wager a guess, i'd say that juvies would eat Skinks, and younger lizards (Eastern Fence Lizards and Six Lined Racerunners), as well as frogs and toads. Interestingly enough, on that page, it says that young Corns also eat small snakes. I haven't heard of that before, but I guess it could be right. :shrugs:

 

[robeyeshua]

thx to all

just the kind of dialogue i love - i just like learning - i'm staying with munson - every 5 days or so til he says longer or i see a problem - thx

 

[chad27]

Well I must say mine eat alot

 

[Hallie]

Just a thought here, how big/old is your boa? Also, what species? BCI? I don't feed any of my boas every 7 days, it is just too much for them, except as wee babies (oops, I lied, my Caulker Cay eats every 7, but he's only a few months old). If it is older than a year, s/he could easily be moved to a 10 or even 15 day schedule (I tend to grow my boas a little slower than some, I don't want them ending up as big fat lumps as adults), then you could keep your corn on a 5 day schedule and just feed the boa every other or every third feeding. Then, when you move your corn to every 7 days when it gets older, you can just switch the boa to every 14.

Edit: Just saw that it is a Dumerils...so depending on the age, I would say every 10 days is a good schedule. I had a Dum once (I was babysitting her) and she was on a 10 day schedule at a year old.