Eat, damn you!

I had posted earlier about my ex's snake having feeding problems.

He's going on week 3. So far his behavior seems to have improved. I've been monitoring his activity since the conditions in his tank have been changed. He is now in a 10 gallon tank with his heated side adjusted to 83 degrees, from the previous 20 gallon tank with 102 degree heated side.

The snake is drinking his water, the dish needs refilling (faster than it would be possible for the water to evaporate), and my ex reports having watched the snake drink with his own eyes. Instead of hiding in his paper tube 24/7, he is now out and about the same hours that my own snake is active, and starts cruising around with a great deal of vigor at around 9 to 10 PM.

But still, he refuses to eat. Two new attempts have been made, spaced 4 days between, since his apparent activity changes. He still acts downright terrified of his food, which is so disappointing after having monitored his rise in activity. So far, these are the methods used (all pinkies are heated in plastic baggies with water as hot as it can get from the tap):

Pinkie tease dance (first try, followed by)
Pinkie in house outside favorite hide overnight
Pinkie with cuts in the back (second try), also left overnight
Brained pinky inside very small enclosure, covered with dark towel overnight (third try)
*** conditions changed, waited 5 days
Pinkie tease dance (failed), cut pinkie's back, left overnight (fourth try)

We tried asking the local pet stores if any of them would give us shed anole skins or let us molest an anole with a pinky.. that didn't go over. None of the local pet stores provide live pinkies either, so that's a no-go, therefore those two options are out of the running.

Since the last attempt at feeding was last sunday, I'm going to try again, by putting him in the deli-cup he was sent in with a pinky head and cover it with a towel and leave it overnight again. I'm not sure if I should, but I've got a can of tuna that I could sacrifice for his cause and see if that might work. I haven't got any chicken broth on hand.. Is there a significant difference in success between chicken broth and tuna? If there is, I can get some chicken broth.

I'm running out of ideas.. he's getting to be thinner than a chopstick. When should we start worrying? Not that we're not worrying right now.. I guess I should say, when should we start panicking? Heh. :awcrap:

er... ** Since the last feeding attempt was sunday, I'm going to try again -friday-. Yargh for non-editing.

hmmmm do you have any friends that have a leopard gecko or anything like that?? We used a peice of leo shed to get one of our problem eaters to take his first meal. The 'pinkie dance' has never worked for me on problem feeders, it just seems to make them more scared... same goes for offering live. The pinkie needs to be about 102 when offered. hmmm I wish I had more advice for you because from the way you are saying he is That thin... well, that would worry me.

I wish I knew somebody with those kinds of pets, but throughout my whole lifetime, I've never had any friends that keep reptiles, or even anybody I remotely knew. I've got a buddy with a rosehair tarantula.. that's the closest thing to an exotic pet I can think of that anybody I know owns, and I'm pretty sure rubbing a tarantula would be an unpleasant experience for all parties involved.

And yeah, man, he's really thin. Tomorrow I'll take my camera over and take some pictures of him when he's out and about. I'll drop a penny in there or something for a size reference.

Sounds mean maybe, but when my baby milk snakes wouldn't eat, I went into the pet store and bought an anole to sacrifice to the snake eating cause. He's still in my freezer and I've used him several times since then. I thaw him with the pinkies, rub them on a little slit in his belly and then back in the freezer he goes. I used to put a little piece of anole tail in the pinkies mouth too, but there isn't much tail left now.. lol.
I've used him since then with hatchling corns too, and have had about 50% success with my non feeders.
I also have found that one of the worse things I do when trying to get them to eat is trying to often. It's hard not to, because when one isn't eating it's on your mind all the time, but I've learned to restrain myself..
Good luck!

I'd keep trying the slit pinky in deli cup method. Maybe with other scenting like Ivory soap wash and rinse very well, tuna water, chicken broth.

Nanci

I've never had luck with tuna or chicken but washing the pinky with soap and anole skin have been the two methods I've found success with. If things really start going bad you could read the posts on force feeding. I had to do that for 3 months last year with my butter, it sucked but after trying a few ways I figured out a very easy method. PM me if you ever need details.

if it comes to force feeding.... Jaxom also wrote out a very detailed way of doing it

Whats worked the best here for non feeders is washed. I did'nt have any kind of special soap, i just used joy dish soap and rinised very very well. I also serve it very warm.
With shy ones i just remove the paper napkin and water and let them stay in the normal container they are use to.
Tease is one thing i will not try again as it made them more afraid of the pinkies here. Took so much longer to get them to eat after that too.
Good luck with your next feeding..

Also don't forget to make sure the f/t has been dipped in hot water just prior to feeding...luke warm mice get a lukewarm reception.
Make sure you also have the tank covered or out of high traffic area etc.

Good luck. Our 3 year old corn just came off of a 4 month food strike...I know how nerve wracking it is.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I went to the local pet shop today to ask for an anole for scenting, and the owner of the store told me that it would be a waste of $10 unless I was trying to get many multiples of problem feeders eating.. I'm going to use it as my last resort before forcefeeding, here's to hoping it doesn't go that far.

One of the first few tries I listed up there was a washed mouse... I can't remember which. Washing didn't help. And yeah... All of them were as hot as we could get them, short of making the water we were thawing them with boiling. In fact, the water was hot enough to start melting out the bottom of the plastic bowls we heat them in. Not sure if that says anything about the heat of the water but more about the quality of the bowl :shrugs:

I went shopping today for a few things I needed, and while I was there, I picked up a small kitchen scale so that I could more properly follow the munson plan for my own little munchkin. I figured I'd try to weigh Calcifer with it, too, to see what the scale would say.. he didn't even register on it. It may just be a sucky scale. I hope it's just a sucky scale. When I picked him up to place him into the scale, he was very stiff. He didn't curl or wrap or even fall limpish, half his body was hanging off the end of my hand and it was standing out there as though his body was tied to an invisible stick. His skin was very loose, as well-- I know that in mammals, skin that has poor elasticity is a sign of dehydration, does that apply to reptiles as well? (I'm making my judgements on how he felt in my hand in relation to how Frostbite feels in my hand... It's the only other relationship I can make for what I know in terms of a "healthy" snake. Frostbite has been eating very well for me and drinks for me virtually on command, so I know he is healthy. Compared to Calcifer, Frostbite grips with a great deal of strength.. In addition, his skin is very firm, and his motion is very fluid. If half of Frostie dangled off my hand, I know for sure that his back end would dangle back and forth if he wasn't using it to wrap around my finger..)

In any case, here is a photo I took of him with a dime.

(( By the by-- I've been dropping miscellaneous things into my scale to see how it's really measuring things. From what I measured, 18 pennies = 50 grams on my scale. How does that measure up to everyone else's scales? If my scale is really measuring correctly, then Calcifer is under 1 gram in weight. My scale only measures at 1 gram+. ))

a good test for a scale is to weigh 1 nickel... should be 5 grams. Your snake is little but he should ..from the looks of him... weigh about 3-4 grams.... but he is very tiny, you will have a hard time finding pinkies small enough. I cant remember so I have to ask... do you 'make' your own or do you buy them from somewhere?? Its its like at a petco (just an example) they have theirs in containers you Cant see through... the trick to that is be feeling the pinks through the packageing... they may look at you funny but its the only way to get the smallest you can. after that you might even have to cut off the front lims just to make it work for your snake.... :shrugs: As for the extra skin or sagginess of it... 2 reasons I can think of... 1 from not eating obviously... the other is that he is becoming dehydrated try to see if he will drink if you place him over the water dish when you place him back... Hope he will drink.

your water sounds about right for dipping into just before offering... thaw it out very well, so that is feel squishy, then just before putting it into the little feeding container with him... dip it in the super hot water for abought 5 seconds, put it into the container, put on the top and walk away.... you may wish to try washing again before doing this but with a dif soap... Ivory and dial didnt work for us but Joy did I wish you so much hope getting him to eat because force feeding is awful on him and you....

btw... I dont know about me but for me it wouldnt be a 'waste' of $10 if you could get your baby to eat that way

I actually did try to get him to drink by hovering him directly over his water dish, and he deliberately avoided getting his face near it. Frostbite drinks for me every single time without fail if I bring him over his water dish, but I duno, Calcifer seems to like doing the exact opposite of everything Frost does :\

hmmmm maybe a different color or shape of the water dish?? I dont know what to tell you... some of my babies will drink this way and some wont... but it was worth a shot to suggest it I hope he eats something soon...

What about a live newborn pinkie?
I wouldn't think it would be that hard, and shouldn't so heedlessly be placed "out of the running" when there are plenty of sources of newborn live pinkies and other feeders.

It's the obvious next step when so many f/t attempts have not worked.

It's fairly common for hatchlings to only take live at the beginning and then can be switched over to F/T after they have established a reliable feeding response.

Curious on how your little one is doing.

Last night, I cut off a pinky head, and heated it up real nice and hot in water while in a plastic bag. I immediately transferred both the snake and the pinky head to the plastic deli cup he was shipped in, carried him up to the unused bedroom in the apartment, put a dark hand towel over the deli cup and shut the lights off. There he stayed until this afternoon when he was checked on.

Aaannndddd... the pinky head was still there.

I guess my very last option is to sacrifice an anole to the cause.. BTW, I've already tried looking for live pinkies, and none of the stores around here sell any. The closest pet store is a half hour away as it is, I wouldn't know where else to look, short of buying two mice and breeding them.

And so, I am running out of options, and force-feeding seems to be looming in the future for poor little Calcifer....

Does anyone have any remaining ideas? :crying:

geez... so sorry to hear he didnt eat it..

lets see.... ummm you said you tried washed? washed before or after thawing?? What kind of soap did you use?? Trying to think of things for you, so I am sorry if I am going over old ground...