Creamsicle Size?

I was thinking that I'd heard years ago that creamsicles tended to be larger than "pure" corns, but couldn't remember where I heard this and since I haven't noticed any mention of it since, I'm thinking it's probably not accurate. Just popped into my mind recently and I was wondering if there's any truth to this?

I have heard that, and here's some observations from my limited (I've only owned two and I've hatched a few clutches of them) creamsicle experience. My adult creams are actually smaller than my pure corns, both right around 300 grams, one is 4 and the other is 5 years old. The babies that I've hatched, however, seem to be quite a bit bigger than pure corns that I've hatched (and hatchlings that I've purchased). This year, all of the creamsicle babies, right out of the egg, weighed between 9 and 12 grams, whereas other hatchlings that I've produced or bought seem to weigh between 6 and 8 grams.

Creams do get bigger than pure corns. The fact is the Great Plains rat (emoryi ) grows larger than guttataon a whole. There are some wild corns that have be caught 5 foot and over but it is rare. I have seen pleanty of 5 foot emoryi over the years. They are also have a thicker girth than guttata. As hatchlings emoryi are fatter and larger than guttata. Now the population from Utha and west colorado used to be called intermontana, they are smaller and at one time were considered to be a Ssp. of emoryi called Elaphe emoryi intermontana. If you have creams that came from crossing of these animals then they should be a little smalles than most creams. you also have to consider that a lot of creams have been crossed back into corns, These animals can be smaller too, it all depends on the genetict make up of the corns you are useing in the cross. As a rule Creams are larger and fatter than pure corns both as hatchlings and adults.

I hadn't even considered the different subspecies of emoryi, but I can see how that would be a big factor. Thanks to both of you for the input.

I too have noticed that my Cremsicle female is smaller than my corns and her offspring at birth are definitely larger than my corn hatchlings.
This year I will breed her to a GPR to strengthen the Cremsicle blood.

Ciao

Hallie said:

I have heard that, and here's some observations from my limited (I've only owned two and I've hatched a few clutches of them) creamsicle experience. My adult creams are actually smaller than my pure corns, both right around 300 grams, one is 4 and the other is 5 years old. The babies that I've hatched, however, seem to be quite a bit bigger than pure corns that I've hatched (and hatchlings that I've purchased). This year, all of the creamsicle babies, right out of the egg, weighed between 9 and 12 grams, whereas other hatchlings that I've produced or bought seem to weigh between 6 and 8 grams.

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rolandslf said:

I too have noticed that my Cremsicle female is smaller than my corns and her offspring at birth are definitely larger than my corn hatchlings.
This year I will breed her to a GPR to strengthen the Cremsicle blood.

Ciao

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After seeing both of your post I came up with a conclusion why both of you have small creams but get large babies. This is only my oppion But did either one of you ever think the reason your adult creams are small is because of the way you feed them as they grew. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but creams get big. I have seen too many hobbiest and breeders under feed their animals. They dont starve them but are afraid to give them huge meals. In nature there is no one to stop them taking a hugh meal. I once caught a eastern garter snake just about 2 feet with a full growm mouse in side it. The lump was huge. I have also notice this in wild eastern milks. I have notice over the years too many corns that have small heads. Yet wild corns dont have this feature. I atribute this to not streching the head on a snake as it is growing. I see offten people treating their snake like mammals ( baby them). Afraid they are going to throw up. In the wild corns take fullgrown american black rats, swamp rats, small gray anf fox squirrels. I was talking to a ranger in the N.J.Pine barrens in the late 80's he was telling me that he saw a pine snake in a tree that killed a mother squirrel ate her and all her young. he said it was so full that it stayed in the squirrel nest inside a hole in the tree. The fact is wild snakes eat anything they can catch big or small. it would be cool if you guys took one of you big hatchlings and pushed to the limit every now and then and see how big it gets. I know with my own stock of corns huge babies make huge adults. I'm only 5' 2" this snake in one of my babies that I got back from a customer when it was only 4.5 feet he was only a little over a year old. His dad was a pure corn 2 inches shy of 6 feet the dads name was jake and was feed a jumbo rat every 2 weeks as a adult. I bred jake to a female corn that was half pure okeete and half snow that had a little GPR in it. This albino corn is about 5'4" to 5'6" long. It never was over feed every week just once and a while. no matter what I feed it it is gone in 5 to 7 days and looking for more it would be even larger if I would have keept up with its feeding habbits. when I give him 3 adult mice he is looking for more and in 2 days he is already taking a poop. just last week I gave him his first large rat it was fully digested and passed out of the body in 9 days

very neat thread and think that I would agree that often we probably underfeed as opposed to overfeed.That corn is a monster..

thanx, yes he is a monster and I'm sure he would be bigger if I would have gave him a normal feeding regimen.I could not belive the size of him and his sister when I got them back to the guy I sold them too. I just picked up a female that is 2 inch shy of 5 feet. I just got her in july she is 3 years old. she did not breed for the guy I got them off of. she may breed late maybe she might be gravid ??? I will breed them next year and call them my monster corn line

Very interesting theory there VinMan, I do agree with you on the feeding part because I am guilty of keeping my corns on the so-called maintenance diet.
I must add that even on this feeding schedule that I use, you do get large corns. You are familiar with my Female Okeetee I call Big Bertha. I now have an Amel Male who has overtaken Bertha in size.
I think corns, like humans, all have different metabolisms and therefore will grow and develop differently, even if all are fed on the same schedules and amounts. Once again, thanks for the theory.

Ciao

Hallie said:

I have heard that, and here's some observations from my limited (I've only owned two and I've hatched a few clutches of them) creamsicle experience. My adult creams are actually smaller than my pure corns, both right around 300 grams, one is 4 and the other is 5 years old. The babies that I've hatched, however, seem to be quite a bit bigger than pure corns that I've hatched (and hatchlings that I've purchased). This year, all of the creamsicle babies, right out of the egg, weighed between 9 and 12 grams, whereas other hatchlings that I've produced or bought seem to weigh between 6 and 8 grams.

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This is 100% the same for me. 300gram parents producing 11 to 12 gram babies. always bigger then my amel babies. Also usually all feed easily after 1st shed.