Political Email

[susang]

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say "NO!"

..

Joe were you raised in a vacume did you go to school, church, the doctor? Did your mother shop in a grocery store, did she buy your clothes? Sorry to tell you this but YOU were raised by a village.

 

[Pruddock]

Yeah...I can make a statement that will allow you all of my opinions on this matter. I go to Texas A&M University and I proudly own a shirt that says Beat The Hell Outta Hippies! Whoop! (and no...its not supposed to violent its a yell that is done here at TAMU for whoever opponent is in sports)

 

[Joejr14]

Joe were you raised in a vacume did you go to school, church, the doctor? Did your mother shop in a grocery store, did she buy your clothes? Sorry to tell you this but YOU were raised by a village.

Well no, I wasn't raised in a vacuum. But going to school, to the doctor, or shopping in a grocery store or a department store doesn't equate a village raising me. I'm pretty sure a cashier in Dillard's didn't have any quantitative effects on me, at least in the form of being 'raised'. I'm also pretty sure that the Doctor giving me a shot and making me cough once a year had little impact on who I am as a person.

 

[Pruddock]

Unless of course the Doctor was doing more to you than make you cough lol

 

[SnakesRule1234]

Unless of course the Doctor was doing more to you than make you cough lol

Wow.. I'm gonna get a kick out of this thread now.

 

[Joejr14]

Joe I think you may have a few misconceptions. My grandparents came here from Poland with 3 of 4 of their children, the youngest was born in US. They moved first to North Dakota and then to Milwaukee. They became citizens, they spoke little English. They didn't have to assimilate every store, shop and bar spoke Polish or German, in their neighborhood. Even the teachers in school spoke Polish or German, when I went to school there 55 years ago, WHY? Many of the children didn't speak English. Since my father served 22 years in the Marine Corp, his brother 21 years in the Marine Corp and his sisters were nurses in the Army. I'm glad they didn't go back to Poland, because their parents didn't speak English and you should be too. They defended a country they loved, a people they loved, it had nothing to do with the the language these people spoke. They defended your right to be a bigot and so would I. Not because you are a bigot but a human and we all have a conviction. I don't agree with yours, but I don't call you ignorant.

Misconceptions on what?

My grandfather was born in Poland. He was a member of the Polish Armed Forces, and fought in WWII. He spent a few years in a Nazi work camp before escaping and coming to the US. His english from what I've been told wasn't the best. He hung out with a lot of people in his town that immigrated here from Poland as well. He didn't go back to Poland because he wanted a better life, and bigger opportunities for himself. But I can assure you that the town of Windsor Locks, CT speaks English, and not Polish. Even today there are a great number of German and Polish people/descendants living there, but I've yet to have anyone say hello in a language other than English. There's nothing wrong with having and embracing your own culture, but there's no reason not to embrace this countries, either.

Btw, my father speaks not a lick of Polish, because it wasn't used much in the house. Neither his brother or sister speak it either, so... :shrugs:

 

[Joejr14]

Unless of course the Doctor was doing more to you than make you cough lol

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[susang]

Well no, I wasn't raised in a vacuum. But going to school, to the doctor, or shopping in a grocery store or a department store doesn't equate a village raising me. I'm pretty sure a cashier in Dillard's didn't have any quantitative effects on me, at least in the form of being 'raised'. I'm also pretty sure that the Doctor giving me a shot and making me cough once a year had little impact on who I am as a person.

But you see the term phrase "it takes a village to raise a child" is exactly that, you were not raised in a vacume. The teacher taught you along with your parents, the doctor nurtured you along with your parents. Someone beside your parents made your clothes and the food on your table came from somewhere too.

 

[ssmith_1187]

"The method has been completed, and the results, if any, have been returned to the respective instance of the object."

For those individuals who understand the concepts of OO programming I would agree...for those that don't not so much.

Now...stop making me laugh and spit tea all over my keyboard :cheers:

Regards,
Steve

 

[jazzgeek]

Here's a history lesson, folks. Anybody ever really hear any stories about the Italians or Germans not being accepted? It wasn't because of their skin color, social standing, or their ability/non to speak english. It was because they chose to attempt to assimilate. They adopted the customs and habits of this country and they blended right in. Right or wrong, that's a very big reason why those two groups did not have major issues immigrating into this country.

Your ignorance in this matter is appalling; immigrant Italians in the US were the second-highest lynched ethnic group.

Here's a history lesson, Joe. The "Five Families", the origins of La Cosa Nostra in the US, were, initially, shakedown artists within the tenement ghettos of NYC. They extorted from their own fellow Italian immigrants because they knew the police would not offer protection to what they (the police) considered second-class citizens (the Italians).

As for the Germans, I live in a state/region with the highest proportion of German immigrants in the US. There's a reason we have racing sausages for a team named Brewers,for crying out loud. My father, a third-generation US citizen, could have bored you with stories about the discrimination that his 'Kraut' grandfather faced in his new country during the First World War.

I'll grant that this previous example is anecdotal; are you willing to stipulate that your examples are gross generalizations as well as not terribly factual?

Part of moving to a new country is about assimilation. If I moved to Poland or Germany I'd attempt to learn their language. Would I be able to speak it as well as they could in 6 months? A year? 5 years? Ever? No. But I'd sure as hell try and I'd try to communicate with them in their native tongue. I wouldn't immigrate and then demand that everyone ELSE learn my language so I can communicate with them. Whether or not you want to believe it, it happens all the time in this country.

And while they're trying like hell to learn our native tongue, the smart companies are realizing that if they don't offer "Press 1 for....", they're losing out on a lot of revenue.

The free market is a wonderful thing.

Hillary will make it okay, I promise. Whether or not you choose to believe it, there is a wide variety of people who own corn snakes. We have a wide variety of views, and many of which are obviously opposing.

We coddle people in an attempt to make them feel better, and we refuse to let people know that they suck at things.

Agreed, and here's my attempt at changing that:

Joe, you suck at predicting Presidential nominees, especially in the party whose ideology you seem to ascribe to. And you suck at it big time. How can I, as an independent critical thinker, give any credence to veracity of the OP in this thread given your track record?

Is this offensive to you? Are we polarizing black and white? Are you scarred? I've got news for you, this quote is 10000% accurate. And it's accurate because we as a society have allowed it to become that way. We are still playing the guilty/victim role of a country that 200 years ago allowed slavery. We pander to certain groups because we have a fear of upsetting people. But explain to me how it's okay to have a Miss Black America, or a Black Entertainment Television? Save your breath---because it is okay. However, god forbid if someone wanted to create a White Miss America, it'd be racist. Can't have it both ways, so it's one or the other. I'm not intolerant of black people, so I'm terribly sorry to inform you that I am not a bigot. I however am intolerant of people who have an attitude that I personally owe them something, when I do not. I am intolerant of people who expect hand outs for no reason whatsoever. If based on those beliefs you want to call me a bigot, then by all means...

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a "Miss Black America", nor is there anything wrong with a "Miss Croatian America", "Miss Lesbian America", "Miss Down's Syndrome America", or any specific subculture that wishes to recognize their own "Belle Of The Ball". The Caucasian in America is hardly a "subculture", however.

"10000% accurate"? I don't think so. The article in your OP isn't full of truthfulness. It's full of truthiness.

regards,
jazz

 

[Pruddock]

I guess when it comes down to race or ethnicities I really don't see a big difference in people and that's why it bothers me. I see societies for black engineers, hispanic engineers, or women in engineering, but if a group was to organize and call it the white male engineering society we'd be deemed racist and most likely expelled or disciplined for this action. As a white middle class male I have watched as my freshman roommate and my girlfriend's freshman roommate (who were both hispanic) get in with full scholarships, and fail out before spring break of their freshman year. Now tell me, if our country really wanted to do away with racism, wouldn't it be fairer to have awarded a scholarship to a male with a 3.6 GPA in Biomedical Engineering with minors in history, mathematics, and veterinary sciences a scholarship or a student who failed out within their first semester. Where does the government see that as a good investment? Now I ask you this, if there hadn't been a "Check your race" box on the scholarship application, who would you have chosen? Yet...I go on digging myself into debt to pay full, out-of-state tuition.

 

[susang]

I'll grant that this previous example is anecdotal; are you willing to stipulate that your examples are gross generalizations as well as not terribly factual?
regards,
jazz

Dale I can accept my being anecdotal, but take pride in having the cajones to stand up to this guy.

 

[Snake Dave]

You must spread some reputation before giving it to jazzgeek again

 

[Bobo's Mama]

You must spread some reputation before giving it to jazzgeek again

Me too. :spinner:

 

[Susan]

The funny thing about not getting a job because one can't speak Spanish is this. Speaking Spanish is a skill. Being able to do arithmetic quickly in one's head is a skill. If the job requires the latter, and only one applicant also has the former skill in addition to the latter, capitalism would dictate that the job go to the former. Capitalism is a characteristically American ideal, and we use it to justify ruthlessly beating out poorer competitors all the time (for example, no one was very sympathetic to foreign sugar cane farmers who lost their jobs and starved when corn syrup was invented and the sugar cane market crashed, and few have shed any tears about the plight of Mexican corn farmers who can't make a living as a result of NAFTA). But then, when you turn that around and capitalism isn't working in the favor of Americans (for example, when Spanish speakers are getting jobs because they have the additional skill of being bi-lingual, or when jobs are getting outsourced because others will do the same job for much less money), some Americans start whining about it like big babies and invoking nationalist rhetoric to try to wiggle out of the inevitable consequences of the American capitalist ideal.

So, buck up. Do you support capitalism or not? If you do, learn Spanish to compete better if you really want that job. If you don't, and want government to subsidize your job, then it's not fair to complain when government subsidizes other things that don't benefit you but might benefit others and the economy in general, like English as a second language classes.

The problem I have is when a job is given to an under-qualified applicant instead of the qualified one solely based on the fact that the qualified one is a white male and the under-qualified one is a minority, just to meet minority hiring quotas...aka Affirmative Action. Personally, I would like the best qualified people to build the airplane my family flies in instead of the under-qualified, and I wouldn't care if they were purple with orange spots, as long as they did the job RIGHT!

 

[Snake Dave]

I see societies for black engineers, hispanic engineers, or women in engineering, but if a group was to organize and call it the white male engineering society we'd be deemed racist and most likely expelled or disciplined for this action.

There's no need for there to be a 'white male engineering society' because they are not a minority. Not all people wish to assimilate themselves.

I'll use an analogy for this one (not a very good one, cakes were the first thing that sprang to mind for some reason). Imagine every person in America makes cakes, and they are all part of one big society. Now most people choose to go with a victoria sponge. However, others might go for a victoria sponge with icing, or fruit. The essential make-up of those cakes is the same, but the people who make the various types might not necessarily want to be identified as people who just make victoria sponges. They might like being different in appearance and the way they might do things and want to be identified as such.

 

[Joejr14]

There's no need for there to be a 'white male engineering society' because they are not a minority. Not all people wish to assimilate themselves.

I'll use an analogy for this one (not a very good one, cakes were the first thing that sprang to mind for some reason). Imagine every person in America makes cakes, and they are all part of one big society. Now most people choose to go with a victoria sponge. However, others might go for a victoria sponge with icing, or fruit. The essential make-up of those cakes is the same, but the people who make the various types might not necessarily want to be identified as people who just make victoria sponges. They might like being different in appearance and the way they might do things and want to be identified as such.

What in the hell does being a minority have to do with having a society? So because white males are not a minority in this country they're not entitled to forming societies? Pfft.

 

[susang]

What in the hell does being a minority have to do with having a society? So because white males are not a minority in this country they're not entitled to forming societies? Pfft.

There is a society for white, Christian males is called the KKK.

 

[jazzgeek]

There is a society for white, Christian males is called the KKK.

And I've gotta throw in a little levity here. My apologies to Galen for stealing one of his sig lines:

"A century ago, 100 white men chasing a black man in a field was known as the KKK; now it's known as the PGA."



regards,
jazz

 

[desertanimal]

The problem I have is when a job is given to an under-qualified applicant instead of the qualified one solely based on the fact that the qualified one is a white male and the under-qualified one is a minority, just to meet minority hiring quotas...aka Affirmative Action. Personally, I would like the best qualified people to build the airplane my family flies in instead of the under-qualified, and I wouldn't care if they were purple with orange spots, as long as they did the job RIGHT!

I have a problem with that, too, Susan. But I also have a problem with something that happens a little more often than the above--when the job, opportunity, bigger salary, perks, etc. is/are given to a white male instead of an equally qualified minority--either a woman, or an ethnically minority male. I also have a problem with the fact that I can legally be fired under state and federal law from my job for being gay. These things qualify as discrimination, Joe. So now that I've pointed some out, if the only things you can think of that are truly discriminatory are still limited to that list of black organizations, you're thinker is malfunctioning.