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Unusual pattern and belly scales on hatchling?

Susielea

Susielea

Lily
I wasn't sure where to post this, so I've put it here as it's a newly hatched (this morning) baby. If it needs moving, could one of the Mods please do so :)

This little one pipped three days ago and decided to come out of her egg this morning, which is a little long going by the rest of the clutch, but she was happy hanging out, so I left her alone. This is a clutch I incubated for a friend.

This is the last one of the clutch to hatch, Mother is a Normal het Amel, Father is an Amel, no known motley or stripe in the mix (two clutches last year, female double clutches, and all were normal patterned, checkered bellied.

So, where on earth did this come from? :confused: She is cute though!

The dorsal pattern threw me for a loop but she has a checkered belly, so not a Motley and she has got some weird scales on her belly, like her ventral scales are split, a bit like subcaudal scales but before the cloaca? In fact I'm not quite sure where the cloaca is :shrugs:

Anyone seen this before or can shed some light on what's going on with her?

Here's some pics, I hope they are good enough and thanks in advance for any and all opinions :)
 

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She is a cool looking little snake. :) The belly scute business near the vent is obviously some sort of developmental problem, so I wonder if the same problem caused the dorsal pattern. Could be genetic, could be incubation-stress. :shrugs:
 
That is really strange. If she were motley, she'd have a clear belly, right? But I don't see how you can call that pattern anything but motley. It's nothing like zigzag or Aztec, except maybe very distally. Hmmm. Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like the aberrant scalation.
 
I have a female that produces all weirdly patterned, oddly colored animals, no matter the male I put with her. I describe their patterns as pixelated, with stripes thrown in for good measure. I have never looked at the vent scales but now Dean has me curious. What is your fascination with ventral shots anyway, Dean? lol It didn't shed yet, right? Maybe it will look more normal after a shed. Nice animal, can't wait to see the rest.
Terri
 
Neat thing. Puzzling things are great.
Are the genes for motley, stripe, etc. the result of mutations?
 
Roy Munson said:
She is a cool looking little snake. The belly scute business near the vent is obviously some sort of developmental problem, so I wonder if the same problem caused the dorsal pattern. Could be genetic, could be incubation-stress. :shrugs:
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She, I'm hoping it might be, I've got first dibs on on whichever one I want, so "she" may be a keeper.

Genetic or incubation stress which is why I wasn't sure where to post this ;)

=Maize411;640816]I don't care! I think she's adorable
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Thank you, so do I!

Nanci said:
That is really strange. If she were motley, she'd have a clear belly, right? But I don't see how you can call that pattern anything but motley. It's nothing like zigzag or Aztec, except maybe very distally. Hmmm. Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like the aberrant scalation.
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VERY strange, there is one other baby, the only Amel this year, that on second look, could actually be a Motley. They haven't shed and I will be able to tell better once they do, but his belly looks as though it may be clear :shrugs:

The only thing that worries me with the abberant scales, is if there isn't actually a cloaca :uhoh: That would cause a real problem. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed, that it's just my eyesight failing me and that once she sheds, I'll be able to find one.

crackerhead said:
I have a female that produces all weirdly patterned, oddly colored animals, no matter the male I put with her. I describe their patterns as pixelated, with stripes thrown in for good measure. I have never looked at the vent scales but now Dean has me curious. What is your fascination with ventral shots anyway, Dean? lol It didn't shed yet, right? Maybe it will look more normal after a shed. Nice animal, can't wait to see the rest.
Terri
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"Pixelated" that sounds good!

I think Dean is a Belly man ;) (you know, there are men that like legs etc).:grin01:

I'd like to know what you find, when you check your funky patterned babies vents :)

alan said:
Neat thing. Puzzling things are great.
Are the genes for motley, stripe, etc. the result of mutations?
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I have no idea, but I agree it's neat :)

Thanks all for the comments!
 
Very nice! I like it! It looks similar to one of the babies that just hatched here. I thought mine was a weird motley until I looked at the belly and saw checks. Maybe one of parents is het motley and it showed up in that snake, distorting the dorsal pattern. Either way, I would be keeping that oen! :)
 
Cloaca Found!!!

A couple of pics to show you Nanci, so you don't have to worry anymore ;) You can just see the liquid she decided to squeeze out for me, I'm happier now too!

Also a couple of pics of the Amel that "might" be Motley, but I think I see hints of belly checkers, so I still have to wait until she sheds :)
 

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That amel is a little cutie too. :)

Good to see you found the cloaca. I was a bit worried about that too.
 
Good girl! What defines motley, anyway, the pattern, or the lack of belly checkers? That other snake is definatley a mot, IMO, FWIW. And so is the first.
 
Nanci said:
Good girl! What defines motley, anyway, the pattern, or the lack of belly checkers? That other snake is definatley a mot, IMO, FWIW. And so is the first.
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The Amel is a boy, yay! In fact you can see the darkness of the hemipenes behind the cloaca in the belly pic, so I think I have two keepers, if only to see what's going on with them :)

On a side note, I just got finished feeding the 17 babies that hatched 29th May to 1st June and all 17 ate first time, I'm flipping ecstatic!!!!! :dancer:
 
Lovely hatchling! With all those belly checks and no known motley gene in the parents, I would probably classify that hatchling in the zigzag/aztec category until proven otherwise with breeding trials. I've seen the occasional zigzag/aztec with a split dorsal pattern.

Oreo_Jan_06_-_3.JPG
 
I see an aztec.. *shrugs* It does look rather motley like, no doubt.. Nice one...

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
Wow, that ones a beauty Susan, thanks for posting :) Is it an Anery or Normal? (it looks brown and grey on my screen)

I can't wait for these to shed, as I'm sure the funky patterned Normal has a lot more beauty under her old skin, (I'm using the word "she" very tentatively), and I'm keeping my fingers crossed they'll be good feeders :)
 
Unusual belly pattern of Aztecs..


Good Example of split checks..

granite2-1-07(3).jpg


His back..

granite6-27-07(6).jpg



We have a daughter of his that has killer aztecing, not the broken glass like his, rather more like a ladder pattern.. I can;t seem to find any pictures of that girl right now.. But they are here in the closet some place...

Regards.> Tim of T and J
 
He's gorgeous Tim!

Did you notice any of the abberant belly scales, like the ones in my babies belly, I'm wondering if it could be related to the Aztec/Zigzag pattern? Interesting about the split belly checks too.

And I'd love to see pics of his Daughter if you manage to find them :)

Edited, as I was just thinking back to what Dean said about incubation stress, as a possible cause for pattern deviation and remembered I had a pic of the clutch as the first egg pipped, I'd cleaned the mould off two days earlier, but as you can see it was growing back quick.

This clutch has been a pain in the butt since the first week, as I have been fighting mould on the eggs and removing as much as I could every few days.

This is what it looked like, sometimes a lot worse. So could this have an effect on the unusual pattern?
 

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Looks like she couldn't decide on whether to be a stripe, zipper, aztec or motley so she chose a little of each :D ... nice girl
 
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