Buff and orange x ?????????????????

What would be the best

Buff and orange x sunkissed
x phantom
x Ultramel
x lava

Try orange x creamcicle then when you get all creamcicles hatch out you'll realise.

answer

timmyjones said:

Try orange x creamcicle then when you get all creamcicles hatch out you'll realise.

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I thought ón this forum are experts but i am dissapointed,your always talk about creamsircle.Iff you had a little knowledge about the orange you will now that its never is a creamsircle.
Iff it is a hybrid explain me why there are amels and orange in one clutch and there are buffs and normals and this now in three generations.Iff it was a hybrid then all animals where between normal and the other thing ore between amel and orange.
I am here to share maybee one new gene,and to discuse what to do for the future.And not to discus iff it is a hybred ore not,some people throw just somthing and don't now where the bell is ringing.

slangenbroed said:

Iff it is a hybrid explain me why there are amels and orange in one clutch and there are buffs and normals and this now in three generations.Iff it was a hybrid then all animals where between normal and the other thing ore between amel and orange.

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These were produced from a Creamsicle:




Just because some of the offspring turned out red rather then orange doesn't mean they aren't integrades.

If you are producing Caramels (or Butters) in the pairings, it is possible the Caramel is "bleeding through" a bit in the hets to produce an Orange coloration.

Yeah some people here suck. Don't expect everyone to be experts though.
IMO all are good. You might get something cool out of each. I'm not an expert on genetics so I doubt I helped.

show

blckkat said:

These were produced from a Creamsicle:

Just because some of the offspring turned out red rather then orange doesn't mean they aren't integrades.

If you are producing Caramels (or Butters) in the pairings, it is possible the Caramel is "bleeding through" a bit in the hets to produce an Orange coloration.

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show mee the hole clutch and wat was the pairing cream x amel ore ??????
did you see the pic they are from one clutch and this in all the clutches
orange x amel
orange x lavendel
orange x buff
all these cobo's have the same result in the same colour nothing between ore looklike

I don't have pictures from the whole clutch, they are from last year pairing of Creamsicle x Amel Motley. This is from one clutch as well, I got red Creamsicles, orange Creamsicles and Snowsicles.

Also, do me a favor and do not demand anything from me. I provided an example that not all offspring will look as you had expected when using Creams and provided you with a solution as to why you are seeing what you are.

I would breed it with a normal with NO hets. This would be a way to conclusively say it's a dominant gene before I started putting it into other combos.

SnakesRule1234 said:

Yeah some people here suck.

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Watch it...

Roy Munson said:

Watch it...

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um.. ok? Why do I have to watch it? It's not like I was referring to anyone directly.

SnakesRule1234 said:

um.. ok? Why do I have to watch it? It's not like I was referring to anyone directly.

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Um... the rules don't say anything about how many people inflammatory posts are aimed at-- it's just generally against the rules. Ok? If you need a few days off from here to think about it, I can arrange it for you.

Roy Munson said:

Um... the rules don't say anything about how many people inflammatory posts are aimed at-- it's just generally against the rules. Ok? If you need a few days off from here to think about it, I can arrange it for you.

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Well, I do need a vacation. If you could arrange a cruise to the bahamas too. That'd be great.
I don't really care, just as long as I'm not suspended forever.

Ok...this is my thinking why some people would say breed it with a creamsicle or an albino rat. Corns and rats have different amel genes, that is they aren't compatible. If you bred an amel corn to an amel (albino) rat then the resulting offspring would be het for both amel corn and amel/albino rat. Breeding those F1's together would give you some normals, some amel (corn), some amel (corn) het for amel/albino rat, some amel/albino rat, some amel/albino rat het albino corn, and some that have both amel (corn) and amel/albino rat genes. Did you guys understand that? If it's the case where it is either amel (corn) het amel/albino rat or amel/albino rat het amel (corn) then the resulting offspring could have different looks based on the amel gene that they have. I hope that made sense. That said, I also second the it could be het caramel showing through. It's not always a definite that you can see in every single animal, but you can see it in many. The guy below looks more red in the pic but in reality is a very deep orange and has lots of yellow. He's an amel het caramel. I know you want to breed this out but you need to prove what it is first in order to have the majority of people accept that it is in fact new.

~Katie

SnakesRule1234 said:

Well, I do need a vacation. If you could arrange a cruise to the bahamas too. That'd be great.
I don't really care, just as long as I'm not suspended forever.

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Suspensions are for users who don't heed mod warnings, and well, you don't seem too concerned with my first warning. But that's ok-- I'm only concerned with your behavior, not your feelings. Permanent bans are for people who don't heed warnings or fail to learn their lesson from suspensions. PM me if you want to discuss it further; this off-topic discussion is closed in this thread.

ok

blueapplepaste said:

I would breed it with a normal with NO hets. This would be a way to conclusively say it's a dominant gene before I started putting it into other combos.

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i do not now if you follow this thing
7 years ago a bred a amel x normal het amel outcome NORMALS -AMELS AND ONE ANIMAL THAT WAS DIFFERENT Brownyellow its was a clutch off 14 eggs
( that old couple is bred 2 times togther and this is the only other looking animal from 26 eggs )That brownyellow animal i held back, on this forum people say its caramel than it was amber.I had caramel and amber in stock and beleef me i now what a caramel and a amber is.That animal a female i bred to a amel het caramel from a different line outcome amel-orange- normals and the brownyellow no butters now caramels.
Thoose orange one male one female and two female brownyellow are bred together afther 2 years i wil call brownyellow ( buf )
Orange x Orange=100% orange
Orange x Buf = amels-orange-normals and buf
Orange x buf = amels-orange-normals and buf
and the orange and buff are the exact copy of the parents nothing between ore looklike.On this forum they say it is butter.
This year a bred the female orange to a lavender male outcome= amels-normals-orange and buf exact copy as the ones one year ago.The male comes from marc vervest and he got them from the states and has nothing to do with my animals,and i didn't now the male was het amel.Reaction on this forum bred them to something with no amel in it.I have another clutch and they are piping at this moment Orange male x lavender female what i see at this moment is normals and buf.
In my opinion i bred them to normal becouse lavender behave to orange as normals will do.When i put a amel to a lavender then i get normal het amel and lavender.When i put amel to normal i get the same result only not in the het factor now i get normals het amel, but i get always normals.It doesn't mather what combo amel x anery = normal het for the parents
caramel x anery = normal het for the parents
Lavender x amel = normal het for the parents
ect.ect.ect
How do you explane that afther tree generations the outcome is exakt like the first ever born.Only the grandmother the first anymal went darker in brown she is 7 year now.If it was caramel where are the butters and how to explane the outcome x lavender,and if it was butter the same.
Beleef me its something new look at the results afther 7 years,and i do not what it is hypogene,anerygene how will i now iff i don't cross it into other colours,and last i will never breed them to creamsircle becous than its not pure anymore not on this stage.

Hey Katie, since you seem to know this stuff and since I'm not familiar with the difference in the genetics between corns and Emoryi (creamsicles and the like), how would the caramel gene affect creamsicles...say a creamsicle was homozygous caramel with and without the cornsnake amel gene? How different (or similar) would it be to a regular butter? And what about a homozygous caramel rootbeer? Could this be a possible explanation for the variations that are cropping up in various parts of Europe?

I was typing when slangenbroed made his last post with the history. I haven't fully read that reply, but if someone spent the time and effort into doing the Punnett squares (or whatever) to see if it is a mixture of the rat snake amel gene, the corn snake amel gene and the caramel gene that is causing the differences. You can get alot of variation with a triple gene mixture, especially when the 2 amel genes cause more than 3 types of looks, and caramel can have a sporadic effect when heterozygous.

Susan said:

Hey Katie, since you seem to know this stuff and since I'm not familiar with the difference in the genetics between corns and Emoryi (creamsicles and the like), how would the caramel gene affect creamsicles...say a creamsicle was homozygous caramel with and without the cornsnake amel gene? How different (or similar) would it be to a regular butter? And what about a homozygous caramel rootbeer? Could this be a possible explanation for the variations that are cropping up in various parts of Europe?

I was typing when slangenbroed made his last post with the history. I haven't fully read that reply, but if someone spent the time and effort into doing the Punnett squares (or whatever) to see if it is a mixture of the rat snake amel gene, the corn snake amel gene and the caramel gene that is causing the differences. You can get alot of variation with a triple gene mixture, especially when the 2 amel genes cause more than 3 types of looks, and caramel can have a sporadic effect when heterozygous.

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I'm not as familiar with the corn and emoryi gene interactions but I do know that the amel genes aren't compatible (I completely forget where I found that too). I can only guess that if you mixed caramel in with albino (we'll keep albino for the amel emoryi version to make things a little easier) it would help bring out the yellows. Maybe the yellow-normals (buff) are caramel rootbeers or and the orange are caramel albinos. I've been getting confused with some of the history so maybe I'll go through and see what I can come up with. I work better with family trees and whatnot so I'll see if I can tell which ones are related. Where's Jimmy...doesn't he work a lot with hybrids? Maybe he'd have a good idea of what caramel would do (if it's not already in the process). If you do happen to have three different genes (amel, albino, and caramel) I'm sure it could account for different looks popping up.

~Katie

The reason I suggest breeding it to a normal with no hets is because it seems that when you bred it with something else, you always got amels in the mix, which suggests to me that this could just be a special looking amel, though it could be a new gene. But if you breed it to a normal with no hets and get no amels and just normals and the odd looking ones then you confidently could say it's dominant. I still think it's too soon to say it's a new dominant gene.

It would be exciting if it was something novel, but I know that the reason I'm doubtful (and I'm sure many others are) is that there are several avenues that need to be explored before you can conclusively say "new gene".

I will try to watch all the threads in detail and will ask Slangenbroed for some further information, but it seems to me that most of you guys did not realize, that Creamsicle is in no way an answer to what he gets.
To version of an Amel gen from a ratsnake COULD be an answer, but doesn't explain the offspring as well if we assume the gene to be recessive (and this is the case with the common ratsnake gene).

Many people knowing me will agree with me that I'm very sceptic when it comes to new genes and especially dominant acting - especially when animals have a hybrid look.
It find it just sad that so many people are shooting at the creamsicle thing that, as said, in no way explain the outcome slangenbroed has presented last year as well as this year. To me, it's justtoo few animals from small clutches to bet on something.

As I told you, I would breed your animals to a normal animal that in particular is NOT het. Amelanistic.

hello menhir

Menhir said:

I will try to watch all the threads in detail and will ask Slangenbroed for some further information, but it seems to me that most of you guys did not realize, that Creamsicle is in no way an answer to what he gets.
To version of an Amel gen from a ratsnake COULD be an answer, but doesn't explain the offspring as well if we assume the gene to be recessive (and this is the case with the common ratsnake gene).

Many people knowing me will agree with me that I'm very sceptic when it comes to new genes and especially dominant acting - especially when animals have a hybrid look.
It find it just sad that so many people are shooting at the creamsicle thing that, as said, in no way explain the outcome slangenbroed has presented last year as well as this year. To me, it's justtoo few animals from small clutches to bet on something.

As I told you, I would breed your animals to a normal animal that in particular is NOT het. Amelanistic.

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The last clutch is Orange x lavendel= outcome normals and buf they are piping at the moment and i don't now how mutch from each,wat i can see at the momnet is 2 normals and 2 buf ,9 eggs and no amels in it.
Iff you are interested you may try orange for free.I live in holland in the south and it is not very far from you.
thats for sure