slangenbroed
New member
sorry menhir
it is 592 km and it is furser as a was thinking.
it is 592 km and it is furser as a was thinking.
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Buff and orange x ?????????????????
- Thread starter slangenbroed
- Start date
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
After having re-read (at least 3 times due to the language,grammar and spelling barrier) slangenbroed's post explaining what his results have been does sound like he has discovered a new gene. What I don't get is that he only produced 1 out of 26 from the original parents. Those are pretty rotten odds. Of course, it could be one of those rare spontaneous mutations as the results in future generations seem to attest to. It does seem that many people have been screaming "hybrid" at all the new genes lately. But IMO, if I like what the gene does, I don't care where it came from.
slangenbroed
New member
Sorry
The first Buf the grandma was one in the total from two clutches,and yes (i think)its a spontaneous thing.I think that it is always a spontaneous thing the first mutation.And yes it is a stranghs thing but it is there and i don't now what it is ( i think some hypogene ).Now i have 13 orange males and females and 6 bufs and they are all females and yesterday there are two more born and i don't now the gender yet.So a have some anymals to work with,but againsd what.
Sorry for the language grammer and spelling.Susan said:
The first Buf the grandma was one in the total from two clutches,and yes (i think)its a spontaneous thing.I think that it is always a spontaneous thing the first mutation.And yes it is a stranghs thing but it is there and i don't now what it is ( i think some hypogene ).Now i have 13 orange males and females and 6 bufs and they are all females and yesterday there are two more born and i don't now the gender yet.So a have some anymals to work with,but againsd what.
PtDnsr
I like calculus
I've been playing with this all night trying to come up with a scenario where it was a simple recessive (if it was that whole amel and albino thing I posted about earlier) and I couldn't. A new gene would make sense except I can't get around one thing. (Now let's see if I get this right. In 2002 you bred an amel to a normal het amel and got amels, normals and a brown-yellow (buff). You bred this female buff to an amel het caramel in 2005 to test for caramel since many people were saying caramel, amber or het caramel. Those results were amels, normals, yellow-amels (oranges), and buffs. Unless that amel het caramel was actually het for whatever this new gene is, it doesn't make sense that you would visually see it in that generation. You would have to breed those F1's from the buff x amel het caramel to reproduce it. Is it possible that it would be something that is codominant to wild type at it's locus? I only say this because that would explain having normals and buffs in the same clutch. But the next generations make things tricky with breedings of orange male (from buff x amel het caramel) x sibling buff females resulting in normals amels, buffs and oranges; and orange male x sibling orange female resulting in all oranges. I would breed out to a snake that isn't amel or het for amel and see if you can easily separate it for a few generations - once that is done it can be tested against everything else. Right now there are so many genes in the mix it's crazy. After the first female buff there's the possability for caramel in the mix as well since she was bred to an amel het caramel. It's intriguing to say the least and I'd love to get my hands on it but that's not going to happen anytime.
~Katie
~Katie
There's no reason that this hyperxanthic-effect gene ("extra-yellow" 
) can't be a simple dominant-to-wildtype. I wouldn't say it's necessarily Incomplete or Codominant at all.
It's ODD that Orange to Orange produced all orange offspring (since the parent animals can't have been more than het for the hyperxanthic trait) but Murphy thumbs his nose at us like that all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if next year the same cross produced lots of Amels. If it produced all Oranges again, that's different and says there really is something weird going on there, especially with a large clutch.
Does an Orange put to an Amel produce all Orange?
I would also love to play with this gene... I want to know what it does to Anerythristics!
) can't be a simple dominant-to-wildtype. I wouldn't say it's necessarily Incomplete or Codominant at all. It's ODD that Orange to Orange produced all orange offspring (since the parent animals can't have been more than het for the hyperxanthic trait) but Murphy thumbs his nose at us like that all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if next year the same cross produced lots of Amels. If it produced all Oranges again, that's different and says there really is something weird going on there, especially with a large clutch.
Does an Orange put to an Amel produce all Orange?
I would also love to play with this gene... I want to know what it does to Anerythristics!
slangenbroed
New member
slangenbroed
New member
buff and orange
normals and buf.
Orange to lavendel = normals and buf
Over two years we wil see the effect in lavender ( orange opal )
I did orange to lavender het amel = amel -orange-Ssthisto said:There's no reason that this hyperxanthic-effect gene ("extra-yellow"
It's ODD that Orange to Orange produced all orange offspring (since the parent animals can't have been more than het for the hyperxanthic trait) but Murphy thumbs his nose at us like that all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if next year the same cross produced lots of Amels. If it produced all Oranges again, that's different and says there really is something weird going on there, especially with a large clutch.
Does an Orange put to an Amel produce all Orange?
I never bred this combo, but i think the outcome is amel and orange
Orange to orange pruduced orange but the clutch was not to bigg 5 ore 6
Buf het amel x amel = orange -amel -normal and buf
I would also love to play with this gene... I want to know what it does to Anerythristics!
normals and buf.
Orange to lavendel = normals and buf
Over two years we wil see the effect in lavender ( orange opal )
slangenbroed
New member
update
From Orange male x lavender female = 4 normel and 3 buff
From Orange male x lavender female = 4 normel and 3 buff
Blue Apple Herps
aka Matthew, PhD
slangenbroed said:
Do you know 100% that this female is not het amel? If she's 100% not het amel and you're getting these results then it seems we may have a new gene on our hands. And it would be the first dominant one in corn snakes that I'm aware of.
slangenbroed
New member
answer
This female lavender is bred two years ago agains the male lavender het amel and the outcome was 12 lavenders ,so i think she is not het amel.blueapplepaste said:
Blue Apple Herps
aka Matthew, PhD
slangenbroed said:
Then she is probably not het amel. Very cool. I hope that it is indeed a new gene on your hands. :cheers:
slangenbroed
New member
Thanks
Thanks for the possitive reaction if you lived here you get one off these from me. At the moment i give them only to marc vervest in belgium, he is one off the better breeders here.blueapplepaste said:
Silvergrin
New member
I remember hearing about this; glad it's still going!
Photo evidence of the clutches would be great; The parents, laying, and all the hatchlings together; I'm sorry to sound doubting but you've got to admit, a new gene is a pretty big claim! Especially one that makes corns that look like rootbeers/creams.
It sounds very exciting though, I wish I could get one too!
Photo evidence of the clutches would be great; The parents, laying, and all the hatchlings together; I'm sorry to sound doubting but you've got to admit, a new gene is a pretty big claim! Especially one that makes corns that look like rootbeers/creams.
It sounds very exciting though, I wish I could get one too!
slangenbroed
New member
I posted several pics but a pic is never the same as the real
Ask marc Vervest he has seen them in live the young ones and the adults
Breed it to an Ultramel
The whole Buff thing is interesting. I find it strange that the Buff x lavender produced Buffs. As you say Buff is either dominant or there is something strange going on that you stumbled upon. Perhaps the Bufff has Ultra in the mix. I would do this breeding test to eliminate that idea.
The whole Buff thing is interesting. I find it strange that the Buff x lavender produced Buffs. As you say Buff is either dominant or there is something strange going on that you stumbled upon. Perhaps the Bufff has Ultra in the mix. I would do this breeding test to eliminate that idea.
Topazfyre
Active member
I just wanted to say that I've been following these breedings and I fully support what you're doing, I know you've had several accusations against you and it must be hard to pull through. I truely wish I could get one as well, but as I'm sure you know shipping costs can be quite insane overseas.
I've got a few ideas. First off, it seems this has been posted elsewhere, and as of right now I have only read this thread, so sorry if I'm missing something.
I just went back and checked all of your breedings and I think this works. You have been talking about the morph "buff." Lets say there is a dominant (as you've been saying) gene called "buff." now, it can't be on the amel locus because, if this were true, a buff het amel could not exist, and so your first pairing that originated these animals wouldn't be possible. So we have the Buff locus now. My first big question was, what are oranges genetically? Now I hope this hasn't bee answered, and I missed it, but I think I have an answer, and hopefully the answer. I believe an orange is an amel het/homo buff (that is amel buff). I won't go through all the breedings, but every single pairing you have done makes sense when this is true and buff is dominant.
the only pairing that messed me up for a moment was your orange X orange pairing. In this case one of your oranges was homo buff, as well as amel. That will result in all hatchlings being homo amel and at least het buff, which means they are expressing both traits. All of them would be oranges, just what you got.
So I think you do have a new gene! Congrats! I would like to see someone do some work with the amel genes in both emorys and corns, and caramel, but I'm pretty convinced your right about your snakes. Speaking of which, I wonder how hard it would be for me to grab a pair from you when I'm in Europe this coming summer...
I just went back and checked all of your breedings and I think this works. You have been talking about the morph "buff." Lets say there is a dominant (as you've been saying) gene called "buff." now, it can't be on the amel locus because, if this were true, a buff het amel could not exist, and so your first pairing that originated these animals wouldn't be possible. So we have the Buff locus now. My first big question was, what are oranges genetically? Now I hope this hasn't bee answered, and I missed it, but I think I have an answer, and hopefully the answer. I believe an orange is an amel het/homo buff (that is amel buff). I won't go through all the breedings, but every single pairing you have done makes sense when this is true and buff is dominant.
the only pairing that messed me up for a moment was your orange X orange pairing. In this case one of your oranges was homo buff, as well as amel. That will result in all hatchlings being homo amel and at least het buff, which means they are expressing both traits. All of them would be oranges, just what you got.
So I think you do have a new gene! Congrats! I would like to see someone do some work with the amel genes in both emorys and corns, and caramel, but I'm pretty convinced your right about your snakes. Speaking of which, I wonder how hard it would be for me to grab a pair from you when I'm in Europe this coming summer...