ghosthousecorns
Well-known member
I just love the name "Highway" for that look, BTW!!!!
-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Please Help Me ID this Odd-Looking Striped Morph the Just Hatched
- Thread starter wendhend
- Start date
wendhend
Kind of Corny
There is actually a ball python morph by that name with a similar dashed stripe look.
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Agreed! We NEED to know the truth about these genetics if we are going to be producing them and want to sell them labeled with the correct genetic information!
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Good luck, Jen! Hope you get your ghost tessera AND produce some motley tesseras! If you do get tessera motleys, please post a photo on this thread!
For what it's worth, I've also seen the same variation in the motley or motley/stripe tesseras produced, with some having nearly as much lateral tessellation as normal tesseras. The question is, is it just a standard range in variation, or is something else at work? It would be nice to say one is the motley/motley tessera pheno, and another the motley/stripe tessera pheno, except that that obviously couldn't be the case in clutches produced from motley/stripe tessera x stripe parents--and yet the variation still appeared. Maybe masque? Joe's "borderless" allele? :shrugs:
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Yeah, it's hard to know exactly what's what at this point. Catherine, did your ones with the most lateral tesselation also have the dashed "highway" type of striping, like mine do?
Because the clutch with Rich hatched at his place, I don't have individual pictures of the whole clutch. 
Working from memory, though, it seems like the ones with more lateral pattern did have broken dorsal stripes, but not to the extent of yours--meaning, their dashes weren't as regular or extensive as the ones on your fellas.
The clutch from last year (the second two pictures I linked above) produced lots of suspected stripe/stripe tesseras, but only one motley/stripe tessera. I've posted his hatchling photo below. As you can see, he's one with a very nice dorsal stripe, and no real side tessellation--but with only the one, there's nothing to agree or disagree with your results. :-/
The closest thing I've seen to the dashed pattern on yours are Rich's Pied Tesseras he produced last year, which all had that neat highway dorsal stripe. He's noted an apparent correlation between bloodreds (or something that some of them carry?) and the degree of disruption to the dorsal stripe. Weren't your highway tesseras were from at least one parent carrying the diffused gene? Just a thought.
The mystery continues!
Working from memory, though, it seems like the ones with more lateral pattern did have broken dorsal stripes, but not to the extent of yours--meaning, their dashes weren't as regular or extensive as the ones on your fellas.The clutch from last year (the second two pictures I linked above) produced lots of suspected stripe/stripe tesseras, but only one motley/stripe tessera. I've posted his hatchling photo below. As you can see, he's one with a very nice dorsal stripe, and no real side tessellation--but with only the one, there's nothing to agree or disagree with your results. :-/
The closest thing I've seen to the dashed pattern on yours are Rich's Pied Tesseras he produced last year, which all had that neat highway dorsal stripe. He's noted an apparent correlation between bloodreds (or something that some of them carry?) and the degree of disruption to the dorsal stripe. Weren't your highway tesseras were from at least one parent carrying the diffused gene? Just a thought.
The mystery continues!
Attachments
Aha, hooray for Gmail keeping every email I've received for the last 8 years . . . .
Here are the pics Rich took of the four motley/stripe tesseras from our 2013 clutch. They do show some lateral tessellation and some breaks in the stripe, but I'd still venture not as much as yours?
Here are the pics Rich took of the four motley/stripe tesseras from our 2013 clutch. They do show some lateral tessellation and some breaks in the stripe, but I'd still venture not as much as yours?
Attachments
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Yes, my two "highway" striped presumed tessera motleys are from a granite motley / stripe mother and thus 100% het diffused. But.... so are their four presumed tessera motley siblings with the complete stripes and minimal side patterns. I have seen some weird stuff with diffused gene involvement in one of my other clutches. This hatchling is from a pewter corn bred to the same tessera male that sired all my tessera babies this season. The pewter dam is proven not to carry motley or stripe, so that should not be involved in its phenotype. But isn't this a crazy-looking baby tessera?
Tessera 100% het charcoal, diffused and presumably motley
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Yeah, I think their might be some correlation between dashed striping and having more side pattern on these guys. Even without the tessera gene involved, motley corns can have lots of variation, so you have to wonder if it is just the same way with tessera motleys? Then again, my pairing that produced the distinct "highway" striped pair theoretically probably should produce 1/4 motley / motley babies, so maybe that's what those two are? :shrugs:
He's amazing, is what he is! Unless it breeds true, my guess would be that something went haywire during pattern formation in incubation? Regardless, gorgeous hatchling. :cheers:
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Thank you! His clutch produced two crazy patterned males like this. I think I will definitely have to keep one of them to see if this kind of craziness is reproducible!
ghosthousecorns
Well-known member
Wendy, my clutch is finally pipping so here's a pic of a few that are out.
I'm thinking these 3 are, hypo tessera, normal tessera and a stripey hypo tessera mot or mot het stripe? I'm very curious to see if I get any "highway" marked ones. There are 5 out so far- the 3 in this pic, a regular motley looking normal mot, and a classic normal.
I'm thinking these 3 are, hypo tessera, normal tessera and a stripey hypo tessera mot or mot het stripe? I'm very curious to see if I get any "highway" marked ones. There are 5 out so far- the 3 in this pic, a regular motley looking normal mot, and a classic normal.
Attachments
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Nice! Yeah, those must be regular hypo tessera and some variety of motley hypo tessera, but interesting how much difference they have in color brightness. Both very pretty! Congratulations!
ghosthousecorns
Well-known member
So just thought I'd post a lil update with my clutch results: I got 4 of the striped ones pictured that are apparently tessera motley, 6 tessera, 5 "just motley" in appearance, and 2 that were neither tessera nor motley. All the striped ones have that little break in their stripe at the neck. I have individual photos of the rest up on iherp.
BTW the reason I know the female used in this breeding is only het motley and not stripe, because she was bred to her son (which would have carried the same het as her) and produced motleys.
BTW the reason I know the female used in this breeding is only het motley and not stripe, because she was bred to her son (which would have carried the same het as her) and produced motleys.
Attachments
wendhend
Kind of Corny
I took a look at your iHerp clutch photos, and it doesn't look like there were an surprises at all going with the presumption that their sire is an anery motley tessera het hypo bred to a hypo het anery motley female. Nice-looking babies! I'm guessing those top two photos are ghost motley tesseras?
wendhend
Kind of Corny
Hypo Stripe Tessera?
Comparison shot of my pale striped tessera baby hatching alongside a normal striped tessera
This is another baby that I hatched more recently from my presumed motley stripe tessera het cinder hypo male bred to an amber diffused het stripe. She has always looked more pale than my other tessera stripe babies, especially on the head, and I think she is likely a hypo stripe tessera. What do you guys think?
Same snake post-shed
Comparison shot of my pale striped tessera baby hatching alongside a normal striped tessera
This is another baby that I hatched more recently from my presumed motley stripe tessera het cinder hypo male bred to an amber diffused het stripe. She has always looked more pale than my other tessera stripe babies, especially on the head, and I think she is likely a hypo stripe tessera. What do you guys think?
Same snake post-shed
ghosthousecorns
Well-known member
Wendy, you are correct the first 2 photos are the 2 ghost mot tessera. Thanks for looking at the pics, I'm super pleased with the clutch and the mom gave me a second clutch as well. The other female I bred the male to laid a small clutch so I'm excited to hopefully get some more nice babies from those clutches.
Tessera mot or stripe? The biggest telltale sign to me seems to be that the motley ones have that little break in the stripe just past their head. The normal one I hatched has a rather vanishing pattern but still the little break in the stripe.
Tessera mot or stripe? The biggest telltale sign to me seems to be that the motley ones have that little break in the stripe just past their head. The normal one I hatched has a rather vanishing pattern but still the little break in the stripe.
Oof, I'd be afraid to guess. She does look paler, but without being really familiar with the line or seeing several in-person for comparison, I'm always afraid to guess hypo vs. normal when it comes to stripe combines. The amount of melanin reduction from the hypo gene, too, seems to vary so much from snake to snake that . . . :shrugs: But when in doubt, hope for the best!
If anyone was still doubting our identification of striped tesseras as the vanishing-striped, reduced head-patterned, little-or-no lateral stripe pheno, my suspected tessera male came through: his girlfriend's modest clutch produced 2/8 definite tesseras.
The breeding was (presumed) Tessera Stripe het Blood, Pied 66% Hypo x Hypo Pied Blood. I deliberately chose a female without motley or stripe to avoid confusion and produce plain ol' tesseras.
Though I showed him earlier in the thread, for clarity, here is the male's hatchling shot again. Then a shot of his (very cloudy) progeny: a Pied(?) Bloodred Tessera on top, and a Hypo Tessera below.
Attachments
This guy is definitely something to keep an eye out for! As you point out, he has the "vanishing" look that I (at least) have only otherwise seen on the tessera stripes, not tessera motleys. Your reminder about the neck break in distinguishing motleys from stripes is good to keep in mind (and accurate even when tessera isn't involved, such as when you're trying to tell good pin-stripe motleys from stripes). But the other differences I see between this guy and striped tesseras is that he has the dark, solid head pattern, and his dorsal stripes (before they vanish) are much wider than is typical for stripes.
Gee, now we need lots more motley and stripe tessera hatchlings to examine and determine how often the "vanishing" look appears in the motleys, because if it's common to both, why haven't we seen more of it . . .? Anyway, neat! :cheers: