Sunglow Poll:

This poll is intended to determine the general consensus of the cornsnakes.com community with regards to the definition of the term Sunglow. Please vote!

rofl, I figured this was coming.

??? I've never even heard of sunglow having anything to do with hypo. I always thought it was just a label for very bright amels that have no white aside from their stomachs.

I wouldn't consider it a linebred trait specifically. Certainly, you can linebreed amels to produce a higher percentage of sunglows, but most of the best sunglows I have seen in person were from mixed clutches with some sibs looking like reverse okeetees.

I voted for no white with and homo Hypo. Old school Sunglows were just no white amels. Recently they better SHINE and most are homo for hypo as well. Times are a changing.

I personally think that the borderless Corns, which would include Sunglows, are more than just a selectively bred for trait. I have had them randomly pop up in some of my outcrossed lines like a recessive gene is controlling the borders or lack there of. Not a gene that jumps out at you, but some type of secondary gene.

I voted for #1. No white amel is a Sunglow to me. I could care less if the hypo gene was involved. :wavey:

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Watch out, Zach! OC just might tell ya that you have no life!!

:nyah:

I voted selectively bred amel. And Good Lord, we better have minimum standards, otherwise we'll get into some more "granite", "Raider", "mocha", "lavender", blahblahblah contests.

regards,
jazz

I think selective bred, no white. I have a beautiful male sunglow with no white on him, I have a beautiful Amelanistic with white on him and I have two awesome Amel (albino) Okeetee's one "standard" and one "high white", all are beautiful in their own way but I think Sunglow should be linebred like albino okeetee's are.
Heather

Call me Old School, but a Sunglow to me will always be a no white amel, no matter if it was selectively bred for or just happened. If it just happens to also be homo hypo, that's fine, but not a requirement.

joe i am definately with you on this one. hypo should be in there.

I dont even see how this is debatable.

A sunglow is an amel with no white. Being homo hypo has nothing to do with it. A hypo amel might look better, but it's not the standard for being a 'sunglow'.

Obviously, I voted for selectively bred amel with no white.

The results dont surprise me though. I figured it'd be a very high majority for the selectively bred amel with no hypo.

I think that sunglow Boas have some people's head's twisted about on this one, thinking perhaps that sunglow "means" Amel+Hypomel. (I am not talking about you Joe, I know you know better.) "Sunglow" Corns were around long before "Sunglow" boas. As far as the level of refinement, we have certainly come a long way, but I think adding "hypo" as a requirement is unacceptable. How could you prove that anyway, with a hatchling? It would be word-of-mouth promises causing confusion and consternation, and I think there is enough of that already.
The Sunglow Corn is a no-white, selectively-bred Amel. From this, I will not bend.

the basis for my answer has nothing to do with boas whatsoever (although you seem to think so snakepimp). i am fully aware what a sunglow corn is. selectively bred traits will soon become run of the mill eventually if the standards are not kept at a certain level. i dont think having hypo in there is a necessity so to speak, but it definately does not hurt. i think that as long as there is little to no white it can be called a sunglow. i cant understand why i have been seeing so many members lately who feel the need to jump all over other members when something is brought up or said that they dont agree with.

TBurkeIII said:

the basis for my answer has nothing to do with boas whatsoever (although you seem to think so snakepimp). i am fully aware what a sunglow corn is. selectively bred traits will soon become run of the mill eventually if the standards are not kept at a certain level. i dont think having hypo in there is a necessity so to speak, but it definately does not hurt. i think that as long as there is little to no white it can be called a sunglow. i cant understand why i have been seeing so many members lately who feel the need to jump all over other members when something is brought up or said that they dont agree with.

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Because to run around and tout that you feel true sunglows are homozygous amel and hypo implies that you feel line bred amel to have no white are not true sunglows, which is in direct conflict with the very vast majority of the cornsnake world (see above poll).

When you say something online, unfortunately or fortunately (depending on your outlook) and it's wrong, you're going to get called out on it.

The simple <b>FACT</b> is that sunglows are selectively bred amels with little or no white. Hypo has <b>nothing</b> to do with any amel being a sunglow.

You yourself just said that having hypo is not a necessity, yet you said previously that you agreed with Joe P. If you just agreed that it's not a necessity, then why vote/agree that it should be there? To me, that's a contradiction.

I still do not understand why this is even an issue. Sunglows are selectively bred amels to have little or no white. There is no debate there. Sunglows are not a double homozygous of amel and hypo.

Can a sunglow be homozygous for amel and hypo, of course. Are all snakes that are homozygous for amel and hypo sunglows---of course not. Are selectively bred amels with little or no white true sunglows, yes. Why is that the case? Because it's been that way for years and the very vast majority of cornsnake keepers understand it that way.

This is similiar to all of a sudden saying that candy canes must come from banded lines, or be hypo.

your right joe

TBurkeIII said:

your right joe

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Yeah, instead of debating the topic feel free to mock.

Question...

I've got a question. How many here who have voted and/or commented have actually produced Sunglows?

I have

I've produced quite a few sunglows and mine were produced by using corns that were sold to me as sunglows (amel w/ some hypo). I'm not trying to say this is the standard or should be. I agree that a no white amel can be called a sunglow and I also think that there are varying degrees of sunglow...much like a sunburn

Joe - I would hardly call a sampling of 25 people "the cornsnake community". Not to pick at you but you would need a heck of a lot more than that to provide convincing community representation.

Russ

My sunglow motley is completely white free in her dorsal colouration and has brilliant deep colouration. She's poss het hypo and poss homo hypo as her parents were a het hypo and a poss het hypo. She has (imo) better colouration than many that get labled as sunglows but that's just my opinion.

I voted with the rest of us sheep (baaaaa) that hypo doesn't need to be involved, but if hypo in in the mix and the snake looks 'better' than a regular 'amel only' sunglow then it shouldn't be penalised for having that extra oomph from the hypo gene. In short, hypo's not needed to call it a hypo, but it doesn't hurt the look...

my to creamcicles haven't any white, can I call them sunglow-creamcicles or harvest

I voted option 1, but from what I heard i'm gonna try to breed the F1 for amel-bloodreds home for hypo. I have an very bright amel that is het for hypo and an bloodred het for hypo, they should give some hypo's het for amel and bloodred next year.

DAND said:

I've got a question. How many here who have voted and/or commented have actually produced Sunglows?

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Very good question DAND

Because I don't breed my own and am not as experienced in the matter, I will have to agree with the masses... From what I gathered, the best definition of a Sunglow is an amel with no white. Whether that includes the hypo gene or not is inconsequential.
Are we defining the Sunglow as the look? Or by its genotypes? I guess that's the question that we need to answer....or debate, or whatever the heck this thread will turn into....