20 or 40 really too big?

[ratsnakehaven]

I've seen snakes crawling around at 88 F or higher - I live in Texas. But, since his tank has a cool side, it should be able to thermoregulate also.

As far as lack of humidity, it sounded like it was an issue with his hygrometer not reading properly. Corn snakes can tolerate a wide range of humidities, as long as they have some elevated humidities when they're shedding. But yes, the temperature readings could have been in error also, depending on how he was measuring them. I read all of the posts and didn't see any information about that, so I just responded that the dire warnings of the snake being in trouble seemed a little drastic. Maybe the OP can enlighten us about that....

SC wrote: "digital thermometer on the hot side with a hygrometer

digital thermometer on the cool side

a hide on both the hot and cold sides

bowl of water on the cool side

a piece of drift wood to climb on

i also use a basking bulb during the day and an infared at night


The one problem I am having is with humidity...I spray water in there and the hydrometer starts picking up the humidity, about 20min. later or so it stops reading the humidity again. Is it because I have a screen lid ? Is it ok to keep spraying water in there to get a humidity reading ?"


One reason I was worried about the temps (which noone was addressing) was because it didn't sound like these thermometers were taking accurate readings. Could be lots hotter under the bedding. Also he was using a basking bulb, which not only would be drying the tank, but quite possibly raising temps away from the thermometers, once again making for higher temps.

Then he goes on to say he's not getting a reading with his hygrometer, either suggesting that there is no humidity, or that there's something wrong with the hygrometer.

With it being a smallish tank, ten gallon, I think it would be smart to get rid of the overhead lamp, then take some more accurate temperature readings.


SC also wrote: "During the day I keep the hot side at 88 degrees F. I keep the cool side at between 74-76 degrees F.At night the hot side is at about 82-84 degrees F and the cool side is between 70-74 degrees F."


My opinion is that these temps are too warm. A corn shouldn't need over 85*F. at the most for warmest, and 74-76* is pretty warm for the coolest, especially if the temps are off in the readings.


Then SC said, "I keep the snake cage in my room which is roughly 75-85 degrees F...though I'm not sure what the humidity is in my room."

If the ambient room temps are 75-85*F., I'm wondering what is controlling the temps in the tank? Do you see where I'm coming from thinking that the snake might be in harm's way. This person needs help, because it's his first snake, and that's what I'm trying to do.

You said corn snakes can tolerate a wide range of humidities. That's true, they're very hardy. But what the OP likely doesn't know is that corn snakes normally come from climates in the southeast that are hot and humid during the summer. They usually brumate during the cold months of winter and are active only in areas that are warm and humid during winter. Snakes in general can't stand extended exposure to the hot sun and will retire underground once they're heated up (after basking). Corn snakes are adapted to a fairly moist and humid climate. To expose them to the possibility of single digit humidity levels would not be kind or healthy, imho. Finally, corn snakes are not usually active during the day. They are crepuscular...and there aren't any corn snakes in TX.

PS: Hope I didn't sound hostile, but I'm a little rushed for time right now and have to leave soon.

Terry :cheers:

 

[Kronos]

The temps may be warmer than they need, but I don't think the temps the OP listed are dangerous to the snake. Assuming, of course, that he is measuring them properly. As long as they can thermoregulate at a temperature gradient, they should be fine.

I'm not aware of corn snakes being in Texas, but I was speaking of snakes in general, since your statement referred to snakes in general as well.

As far as humidity goes, it really appears that there is a problem with his hygrometer. Many people here don't mist their cages (although I do, and I live in Houston which has very high humidity), they usually report not problems with shedding. I'm just saying, dire warnings of his snake being in jeopardy, are probably unwarranted.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

The temps may be warmer than they need, but I don't think the temps the OP listed are dangerous to the snake. Assuming, of course, that he is measuring them properly. As long as they can thermoregulate at a temperature gradient, they should be fine.

That's fine. We're entitled to our opinions.

I'm not aware of corn snakes being in Texas, but I was speaking of snakes in general, since your statement referred to snakes in general as well.

Oh. I suppose some snakes crawl at 88*. I've seen coachwhips at these temps, but rarely.

As far as humidity goes, it really appears that there is a problem with his hygrometer. Many people here don't mist their cages (although I do, and I live in Houston which has very high humidity), they usually report not problems with shedding. I'm just saying, dire warnings of his snake being in jeopardy, are probably unwarranted.

If you think this is a dire warning...

"Go back and read my answer to your first post in the Introductions Section. I think your tank is too hot. The ten gallon will suffice, if you set it up correctly, but your snake may be in trouble already."

...so be it. It definitely is a warning and a starting point for us to help.

:cheers:

 

[Kronos]

"your snake may be in trouble already" seems like a dire warning to me. From what we've seen so far, I doubt it's in trouble. But maybe there's more here than we've heard.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

"your snake may be in trouble already" seems like a dire warning to me. From what we've seen so far, I doubt it's in trouble. But maybe there's more here than we've heard.

That's the point. Maybe there's more than we've heard. I'm trying to get him to get accurate temps and humidity readings before we go anywhere else with it.

I gotta run. Play nice...

TC

 

[rexracer]

I have to agree with RSH on this one. Here are my thoughts. If the ambient air temp is 75-85* then the whole tank is at least 75-85*. If there are heat lamps day and night, then the whole tank is above 75-85*. I don't see how the cool side could be less than 80* If the room actually reaches 85* then I don't see how any part of the tank could be less than 90*considering that a heat lamp over a 10 gallon tank has got to add a considerable amount of heat. I also think that, though the humidity may not be reading exact, since it goes up when misted it's probably working, and the lamps are probably baking all of the moisture out of the air.

My first suggestion to the OP would be to loose the lamps and lower the room temp, if possible, to never go over 75*.

 

[SnakesOfCorn]

Hey sorry I haven't responded had to drop the gf off at work.

The heat in my house is on 72...now my room seems to hold the heat making it a little hotter but I also turn the fan on or open the window to get some fresh air and get it a little cooler in here.

Since I turned off the heat light the hot side of my tank is currently at 85* F.

The cool side is at 74* F.

My digital thermometers are positioned as follows, the one on the hot side is 1" below the bedding, I have 2" of bedding total so it's right in the middle of the bedding and directly above the UT heater, taped to the side of the viv.

On the cool side the thermometer is right at the top of the bedding. It is taped to the side.

The hygrometer is halfway from the top, closer to the hot side, taped to the front of the viv. Also I still have not gotten a humidity reading since turning the lamp off.

Are my thermometers and hygrometer in the correct places, they were the instructions I was given. My snake does not seem to burrow at all I was thinking because the temps are good enough on the top of the bedding that there was no need to..?

Also a humid hide was recommended....what is that exactly ??

I appreciate all the help everyone, I know buying from a place like PetsMart already gives my little guy a lower chance at survival, I want to make sure I do everything in my power to increase those chances.

P.S. Also I fed him yesterday and he seems to have digested just fine, I don't see to big of a bulge on him anymore and I also checked to make sure he didn't regurge, he didn't.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Hey sorry I haven't responded had to drop the gf off at work.

The heat in my house is on 72...now my room seems to hold the heat making it a little hotter but I also turn the fan on or open the window to get some fresh air and get it a little cooler in here.

In my humble opinion, try to keep the room on a more even keel than 75-85*. Too much variation will affect the conditions in your snake's tank. I would try to keep it bt. 70 and 75*, otherwise your snake won't be able to cool down and its metabolism will be quite high for this time of year.

Since I turned off the heat light the hot side of my tank is currently at 85* F.

The cool side is at 74* F.

These temperatures aren't bad. In my opinion, the warm side should be at least 80* and not more than 85*. I'm not sure how well your reostat will be able to control these temps. A thermostat would be better. The cool side can be as low as 68 to 70* and up to 74/75*. I prefer the lower range in the wintertime, but that's me.

My digital thermometers are positioned as follows, the one on the hot side is 1" below the bedding, I have 2" of bedding total so it's right in the middle of the bedding and directly above the UT heater, taped to the side of the viv.

On the cool side the thermometer is right at the top of the bedding. It is taped to the side.

I think you should get your readings closer to the bottom of the tank. If your corn starts hiding under the bedding these will be the temps they use. With two inches of bedding there might be quite a bit of variation from the top of the bedding to the bottom of the bedding. Probably the cool side won't vary that much, but I'd be careful that it isn't too hot right on top of the heat mat.

The hygrometer is halfway from the top, closer to the hot side, taped to the front of the viv. Also I still have not gotten a humidity reading since turning the lamp off.

Are my thermometers and hygrometer in the correct places, they were the instructions I was given. My snake does not seem to burrow at all I was thinking because the temps are good enough on the top of the bedding that there was no need to..?

I still think there might be something wrong with the hygrometer. I'd take it out and try to get some readings from around the room. Those hygrometers you get from pet stores that stick to the sides of the tank aren't usually very reliable. You might want to get a better one to monitor the humidity in your room.

That said, the humidity in Philly is pretty good normally, unless your house is heated so much it reduces the humidity greatly. I wouldn't worry too much about the humidity, if the temps in the tank are good.

Also a humid hide was recommended....what is that exactly ??

A humid hide is a hide that is more humid than the rest of the tank. Most folks make a humid hide by putting damp/but not wet sphagnum moss inside some kind of container. I like containers that are open on top, because a completely closed container won't get enough air circulation and will start to get moldy or mildewy after enough time. Snakes will sometimes use a humid hide or even soak in their water containers when they're too hot or too dry or when they need some extra help to shed properly.

You might want to check out this post on humidity and hides, etc...
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107147

I appreciate all the help everyone, I know buying from a place like PetsMart already gives my little guy a lower chance at survival, I want to make sure I do everything in my power to increase those chances.

P.S. Also I fed him yesterday and he seems to have digested just fine, I don't see to big of a bulge on him anymore and I also checked to make sure he didn't regurge, he didn't.

Cool! We want to help.

Corn snakes usually take two or three days to digest, if not more. If your snake is digesting in one day, it is probably too warm in the tank, imho, and your snake's metabolism might be too high. Watch your snake's behavior. That sometimes gives hints as to how good the conditions in the cage are.

Hope these suggestions help you. Corn snakes really are pretty hardy and they can stand a certain amount of less than desireable conditions for awhile. They can also miss a meal or two and still gain their weight back. I wouldn't worry too much, unless something gets far out of line. Have fun with your new pet.

Terry :santa:

 

[SnakesOfCorn]

I just had Odinn out playing around, I fed him Tuesday around 4pm...he seems to have digested fine, could it be 1 pinkie is not enough ? I am going to find a ruler in a few mins. and get a more accurate measurment of him...still can't figure out how to post the pics of him..??

I was thinking of getting a hygrometer to put on the wall in my room, directly above the tank. Does anyone know where I can get one of good quality that will read the humidity in my room ?

As far as a humid hide, since I'm using a 10gal. tank I don't think I can fit a third hide in there. But I have 2 ideas I am thinking of as solutions...

1) Get a 20gal. Long tank, use everything I have in the 10gal. tank plus add a humid hide and a bigger water bowl.

2) The hide I am currently using on the hot side is one that I made out of rocks...I bought 2 thick rocks and 1 long flat rock for the top, then I built up the aspen bedding in back of it to make it more of a cave hide. I could add the spagnum moss in there and keep it moist...it would get air flow also so it shouldn't get modly or anything...right ?

I'm not sure which solution is better, would it be ok to add the spagnum moss to the hot side cave ?

Just from looking at him he looks to be roughly a foot long...maybe 15" tops. If I keep a 20gal. Long tank with plenty of hides and water would that be ok for him ?

First and foremost I need to get something to read the humidity in my room, so if anyone has any ideas on what to get and where to get it at I would definitly appreciate it.

Thanks, SC

 

[ratsnakehaven]

I just had Odinn out playing around, I fed him Tuesday around 4pm...he seems to have digested fine, could it be 1 pinkie is not enough ? I am going to find a ruler in a few mins. and get a more accurate measurment of him...still can't figure out how to post the pics of him..??

Yep, they can digest a pinky fairly fast. Maybe weighing the snake would be more accurate? But sounds like your snake might be able to handle 2 pinks.

As far as a humid hide, since I'm using a 10gal. tank I don't think I can fit a third hide in there. But I have 2 ideas I am thinking of as solutions...

1) Get a 20gal. Long tank, use everything I have in the 10gal. tank plus add a humid hide and a bigger water bowl.

2) The hide I am currently using on the hot side is one that I made out of rocks...I bought 2 thick rocks and 1 long flat rock for the top, then I built up the aspen bedding in back of it to make it more of a cave hide. I could add the spagnum moss in there and keep it moist...it would get air flow also so it shouldn't get modly or anything...right ?

I'm not sure which solution is better, would it be ok to add the spagnum moss to the hot side cave ?

Here's a ten gallon setup designed to give lots of choices....

It's not a great photo, 'cus it's kinda dirty, but it's just for illustrations.

The heat mat is under the hides on the left end. The small hide with sphagnum is the humid hide. The snake can sit on the bottom or top or coil up inbetween. The large white hide is drier. It has about an inch of pea gravel in the bottom, which is moistened, then allowed to dry out over a week or two. Over the gravel is layers of newspaper or paper towelling. The snake can lay on the gravel, in the middle layers of paper, or on top, and still be concealed. Smaller snakes generally like tighter fitting hides though. The snakes can adjust their temps as needed also.

At the far right end are a couple large water jugs. Their functions seem pretty obvious...drinking, soaking, adding a little humidity to the cage.

In the middle is a layer of shredded aspen about an inch or two deep. Sometimes I put a dry hide under the aspen; but the aspen is covered with balled up newspaper, and the snake can hide under that too, for another dry hiding place. Often times I mist the newspaper in the middle, especially before feeding or shedding time.

The reason all these options are interesting is because you can learn from the individual snake what it likes best, and in that sense learn more about how you should care for it. I'm really into observing behavior and learning as much as I can about a species, in general, my pets in particular.

Hope this helps....TC :spinner:

 

[SnakesOfCorn]

Thanks for the picture, I believe I was checking out your setup's last night also on that link you gave me, Makes things a lot easier to actually see it too.

One question about your setup, I notice the hides you are using are almost as tall as the 10gal. tank, would they be good for my corn that's only about 12" long ? I was thinking of taking some half gallon plastic milk jugs and cutting them in half, maybe 6"-8" tall, what do you think ?

I'm a little short on cash right now, especially with the holiday comming up so after Christmas I'm going to either buy a scale to weigh him or take him to a local reptile vet and get a total check out done. I think I have a male because his tail is long and slender, as opposed to a female's shorter, stubbier tail. Not 100% though and I'd like to be because I would like to have 1 male and 1 female.

I agree I enjoy watching my corns behavior also, I have noticed he doesn't like soaking in his water bowl at all...he hasn't gone in there once, he has drank from it just won't soak in it.

There's one thing I did notice though, there is a piece of old skin I assume from his last shed that never came off...it doesn't wrap around it's just a single little piece on his side. Should I try soaking him or using a wet paper towl and try gently wetting it to make it come off ??

Thanks, SC

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Thanks for the picture, I believe I was checking out your setup's last night also on that link you gave me, Makes things a lot easier to actually see it too.

You're welcome!

One question about your setup, I notice the hides you are using are almost as tall as the 10gal. tank, would they be good for my corn that's only about 12" long ? I was thinking of taking some half gallon plastic milk jugs and cutting them in half, maybe 6"-8" tall, what do you think ?

The ten gallon tank is plenty big enough and you can set it up any number of different ways. The tall white hide is for larger snakes. I wouldn't use it with a baby. The smaller hide with the sphagnum would work well for a baby as a humid hide....

The larger jug (milk jug) can be used for feeding, for water, or for another hide, maybe a drier hide. I would probably take the big, white hide out and put in some other props for a baby, but I keep my babies in smaller containers, such as shoe boxes or racks. They'll be somewhat larger before I transfer them to a ten gallon.

I'm a little short on cash right now, especially with the holiday comming up so after Christmas I'm going to either buy a scale to weigh him or take him to a local reptile vet and get a total check out done. I think I have a male because his tail is long and slender, as opposed to a female's shorter, stubbier tail. Not 100% though and I'd like to be because I would like to have 1 male and 1 female.

Might be interesting to go to a herp/reptile show. You could buy a few things, like a scale maybe, and someone should be willing to sex your snakes. It's hard to tell the sexes w/o probing at that age. Some people also think they can tell by popping the males.

I agree I enjoy watching my corns behavior also, I have noticed he doesn't like soaking in his water bowl at all...he hasn't gone in there once, he has drank from it just won't soak in it.

They don't all do it, or do it very often. I just like the practive, because it serves multiple purposes: provides drinking water; helps anchor down that end of the tank, so the jugs aren't moving around; gives off a little humidity; allows the snake to bathe w/o spilling, if it wants; can be used as a feeding bin or a dry hide; and sometimes even serves as their latrine. When a snake likes to defecate in its water jug it makes the cage easy to clean. I'm going to change the water almost weekly anyway. Milk jugs are easy to replace too. But arranging your viv the way you want is your privilege. Do what makes you happy...I'm just giving you ideas.

There's one thing I did notice though, there is a piece of old skin I assume from his last shed that never came off...it doesn't wrap around it's just a single little piece on his side. Should I try soaking him or using a wet paper towl and try gently wetting it to make it come off ??

Thanks, SC

Dry, but not that big a deal. I would put it in a holding container, such as a gallon jug with a screw on top with screening for air circulation, and a little water, for about 20 - 30 minutes, and the dead skin should come right off. When your viv is set up properly and the snake has oppotunities to use a humid hide or water container for soaking or you can spray the cage before it sheds, etc, the snake should never have dry skin or any problem shedding.

Best luck again and glad I could help....TC

 

[Dreamsnake]

Sometimes they never let you see them move around. I've had one snake for over a year and I've seen her soaking once. We live in New Mexico and it is very dry here. A water dish over the heating pad works for humidity.

If I get stuck shed I use a damp wash cloth to lift off the skin. Be warned he may poop, if he does watch his tail so you know when he's about to go.

Chances are you'll be like the rest of us and want many different morphs and variations, so that "one of each" thought wont last long.

 

[Kronos]

I was thinking of getting a hygrometer to put on the wall in my room, directly above the tank. Does anyone know where I can get one of good quality that will read the humidity in my room ?

It would be better to place the hygrometer inside the cage so that you'll know what humidity the snake is experiencing. Moisture in the substrate or damp hides, from the water bowl, etc., can produce different humidity in the cage.

I just use one of those cheap little hygrometers I got from Petsmart. To test it, I put it outside for about an hour and compared it with the humidity listed on Weather.com. It actually came out right. So whichever hygrometer you get, you may want to test it that way. The cheap ones are not very reliable, so even after testing it, I still regard its reading with suspicion.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

It would be better to place the hygrometer inside the cage so that you'll know what humidity the snake is experiencing. Moisture in the substrate or damp hides, from the water bowl, etc., can produce different humidity in the cage.

I just use one of those cheap little hygrometers I got from Petsmart. To test it, I put it outside for about an hour and compared it with the humidity listed on Weather.com. It actually came out right. So whichever hygrometer you get, you may want to test it that way. The cheap ones are not very reliable, so even after testing it, I still regard its reading with suspicion.

Good points.

Just as an example, yesterday afternoon it got really cloudy here. A storm blew in to southern AZ and we got some showers. Then it drizzled for awhile. The humidity shot up into the 80's outside; but in my Herp Room, the humidity was only in the 20's%. In the tanks the humidity was higher than the ambient room humidity, because of the different sources of moisture and the fact the tanks tend to hold in the moisture, only being open on top, plus the substrates, etc. As long as the humidity is above 30% in the tanks, I'm pretty happy.

I do regard the humidity gages with suspicion. I have three of them, not always in the same room at the same time. One has a probe on it, so I can put it into a cage and get a reading right where the snakes are at. They often will give a different reading in the same spot. How reliable are they? Taking them outside and testing them against a known reading is a great idea. That should enable you to calibrate fairly accurately. Over time I think we just get a feel for how things work best and pick up some of the better accessories along the line, like in the humidity gages and scales, etc.

Right now things are going pretty well for me, but I don't have enough heating pads for all my cages. I think I'm going to have to upgrade to larger UTH's too, get enough for all my cages, and get a good thermostat to regulate everything. I've always shied away from these kinds of gadgets, because I didn't trust them. Also, I've always done brumation with my snakes. But now that I'm living here in AZ, and have less control over the heating system in the house, and am starting to get more corn snakes, I think some changes are in order. These strands of late are helping me to see that corns have requirements a little different from other ratsnakes. For one thing they do need a reliable source of heat for digestion, if we're going to keep them active in winter, and thus I need more setups.

This morning I got up at 6 a.m. and it was only 69*F. in my Herp Room. It cools off overnight. The snakes that aren't on the UTH's at the moment are probably pretty cool and not very active. I think they might be doing better if they all had extra heat before winter really sets in here. My Boot Key rosy rats are in their hides right on top of the heat source this morning. They're digesting a meal from last night.

Terry :cheers:

 

[ekans]

Another quick question. I have a 20 gallon tank and a medium Exo Terra UTH. My dad wanted to make sure it worked before sticking it to the tank. It's warm, but it took forever to get there and it's not HOT. Is something wrong with it?

 

[bitsy]

It should never feel hot - it needs to be below human body temp for a Corn (85-88 degrees is fine) so it should always feel just warm or lukewarm when you touch it. What does the thermometer on the floor inside the tank say? Take the temp right on the tank floor, immediately above the UTH.

 

[Temerairecorns]

if you are worried about the size of the tank buy the tank and a critter keeper. place the critterkeeper inside the tank so that it has a warm and cold side. this offers your snake a smaller space but makes it so you don't have to keep buying tanks. Just upgrade the size of your critter keeper. oh and invest in a prob thermometer.
the pet store i got my corns from doesn't have any small cages so they use breeding boxes to keep the hatchings comfy in a tank they would usually use to house an adult.