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A bit put off...still.

Jadie.Glitch, I am not going to flame you. You are feeding your snakes a wholesome safe diet. I find it a little interesting that you are offering it to the cats as well, but that is only unusual in that I have heard about it in Europe but not here in the US. You are certainly choosing to feed p/k for the best reason I know, because you want to keep your pets healthy & this allows you the level of control over their diet that you want. I only object to the risks of feeding live & the general impression that I get that many people who feed live do so so they can watch the poor rodent struggle. Yech. You are making sure the rodents are healthy and you are so not enjoying the killing part, so to my mind there is NOTHING wrong with you.
 
Temano said:
I think wiggling the prey to get the snake to strike is cool enough...
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I agree. I admit to doing the zombie mouse dance routinely. I think it's fascinating to watch, and not at all spoiled by feeding f/t, and I think it's good exercise for my snakes to have to strike & coil for their dinners.
 
We have been kicking this live verses F/t subject for ever. I have never heard an argument that I felt compelled me to use live.

If I feed live: I get to watch the snake kill the mouse. It is more natural.

If I feed frozen: I get to watch the snake strike the mouse.
I get to store thousands of mice in my freezer. All the right size.
I always have mice on hand. Don’t have to run to the pet shop.
I buy frozen mice on line cheaper by 75% than the pet shop.
I raise my own mice and freeze them when they are just the right size.
Freezing kills the parasites in the mouse.
Dead mice can’t hurt my snake.

It’s a no brainer here. Why argue the point?
 
Wade, I don't think anyone was arguing. Dazzles got hassled by someone who doesn't belong to this forum & we were all chiming in with why f/t or p/k is better & supporting Dazzles. Jadie.Glitch made a good argument for why what she is doing with fresh p/k that she raises & humanely kills is working for her. I agreed it made sense & I wouldn't give her any aggro about her strategy which is humane, safe & works for her. Have I summed it up about right, folks?
 
Jadie.Glitch said:
Personally I raise my own ASF rats and I pre-kill them for my snakes. I know there are still possible risks involved here, but raising my own does greatly diminish the risks of parasites since I haven't introduced any new blood in quite awhile. I even raise extra rats and try to supplement my cat's diet a couple days a week with pre-killed rats (holistic is 10x healthier for cats than kibble, and one day I hope to have enough of a constant surplus to have them be totally converted, then when we get a house we're planning on getting a ferret which will be fed holistically as well).

Now generally people put "Please don't flame me" in right about now, but that usually incites flames, so I'll just set my opinion carefully down here and offer up the promise that I will graciously accept any contradictions of my methods and even be nice in response :).

As for that lady having a "mouse-killing fetish" I still feel bad each and every single time I kill a rat. I know it's food for my snakes so I do it, and healthy for my cats, but I don't enjoy it. I've gotten more used to it, but I in no way enjoy it and a lot of the time I still get those stomach crinklies.

Now one of my reasons for feeding pre-killed is convenience, considering my rats are right outside the snake room, and the freezer is upstairs (plus thawing takes forever!). I don't pretend that I'm not just a teeny-tad bit lazy after working all day, however, my main reason is that I do buy into the theory that frozen/thawed isn't as healthy. In fact I find it down-right disgusting. Maybe I've just gotten bad frozen mice in the past, but (and I've used this scenario before) if I was lost in the woods and had to catch a rat to eat, I may very well do it.. but if someone showed up who thawed a frozen rat for me and said "Here, eat it", I'd rather starve. Those things are the most vile, disgusting things I've ever seen/smelled and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, let alone the snakes and cats that I love so much.
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Hey Jadie, I've just started buying frozen day-old chicks and my cats have gone crazy over them! I don't buy mice for them but they do manage to steal the thawing snake-food sometimes
 
Temano said:
Yeah.

I can see this becoming a cyclic argument though, lol.
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It does! But at the moment we're not arguing. :)

Jadie, my younger cats are showing vast amounts of interest in the f/t mice. Maybe I will give it a try!
 
wstphal said:
Wade, I don't think anyone was arguing. Dazzles got hassled by someone who doesn't belong to this forum & we were all chiming in with why f/t or p/k is better & supporting Dazzles. Jadie.Glitch made a good argument for why what she is doing with fresh p/k that she raises & humanely kills is working for her. I agreed it made sense & I wouldn't give her any aggro about her strategy which is humane, safe & works for her. Have I summed it up about right, folks?
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That is Zackly what I was doing Betsy, I was not arguing, I was being supportive.
 

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wstphal said:
I agreed it made sense & I wouldn't give her any aggro about her strategy which is humane, safe & works for her. Have I summed it up about right, folks?
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LOL Aggro. That word reminds me of the good old 'WoW playing days before I got bored with it' :p

But, on topic, I can say that I have seen a much larger quantity of people feel that the right thing to do is feed frozen than the other way around. It seems your 'friend' is in the minority. Also, my sister is one of the many people who have seen the results from feeding live as she lost her beautiful 5' long King this way. She spent a week babying him, taking him to the vet and swabbing his wounds.. to no avail, she lost him anyway.
Personally, I only use live pinks or early fuzzies for snakes/snakelings who have problems eating. My rule of thumb is 'never feed live if the eyes are open', I am too scared to take the chance. If the eyes start opening, it goes into the freezer.
 
Wasn't there a story on here not too long ago of someone saving a cat with an eating disorder by offering mice, or chicks? Snake food of some kind...humm...*gone thread hunting*
 
Oooh, I'm going to give my kitties some of the quail chickies that are on their way, I bet they'll love it.
 
My sisters cat had kittens a long time ago and one day she brought up about 5 baby rats to the house so the kittens would learn how to hunt... after I saw that I was fascinated by it and helped her out until the babies started going to the barn themselves.

I was about 15 at the time.
 
Outcast said:
My sisters cat had kittens a long time ago and one day she brought up about 5 baby rats to the house so the kittens would learn how to hunt... after I saw that I was fascinated by it and helped her out until the babies started going to the barn themselves.

I was about 15 at the time.
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Now THAT breaks my heart.....
Domestic rats are nothing like wild ones, and are wonderful pets.
Right now I have 2 that were supposed to be feeders, they are about 6 weeks old. The first night I had them they were quite afraid of me, but as of right now I have had them exactly 11 days, and they are the sweetest little things. They hear me coming and run to the door of their cage begging for my attention....
Sad that sweet little tame bubs were tortured to death to teach kittens a skill that their mother should have taught them....
 
I would never leave a cow in my back yard and tell the kids to go get their own dinner.

I would if I had to, kill that cow to feed my kids but as it stands at this period in time, I dont have to. I can go to the market and get meat for my kids.

But I will say there are times we have to go the extra mile for our animals. Dazzle you are doing the right thing!
 
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