ACLU... I hate you.

[COerriccaRN]

I was watching the news this morning and saw the report that the lawyers at ACLU has forced a cross in the Mojave desert to be boarded up so no one can see it! The Cross was erected in World War 1 by soldiers as a memorial to the dead. THIS IS A WAR MEMORIAL! The ACLU claims that the cross is "government forcing religion on others" CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS?!?!?! I am astounded... what is this country coming to? This case is going to the supreme court, but until then it is boarded up. The memorial has been up since 1934 and is a great reminder of the SACRIFICE of our brave WW1 Soldiers.


ACLU CLAIMS THAT THE MEMORIAL IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Personally, I am completely outraged by this and want to help keep the cross in it's rightful place. Here is an article about the cross, I actually cried reading it.
CLICK HERE TO READ

I am sooooo mad right now... Enraged actually. Everyone needs to e-mail/call or do anything they can to stop this from happening.

What happens if they tear this one down? Will Arlington be next?

This is a punch in the gut to our Veterans and something NEEDS to be done!!!

 

[pwargcm]

well a memorial it is. and shouldnt be torn down. dumb of them to think thats its the gov't forcing religion on others. did they govt say hey yinz have to come check this out and stare at it and pray. lol. no, its just standing there, not to offend anyone. i see crosses walking down the streets of some cities looking at churches.

and arlington isnt just a memorial, its a cemetary. so i doubt it will ever be removed.

 

[COerriccaRN]

True, it will never be removed BUT will they ever replace the Cross headstones with something "less offending."

No one is telling anyone to go praise, worship or anything at the cross. If people do not like it DON'T LOOK AT IT!!!


SIGN THE PETITION TO KEEP THE MOJAVE CROSS UP AT WWW.DONTTEARMEDOWN.COM... Everyone, protect your rights and SIGN!

 

[ZoologyGirl]

I have mixed thoughts about it, and can find myself arguing for both sides...but for the most part I lean towards the leave it be side. It is a memorial, not propaganda. I just hope the same people who support leaving it be would also feel the same had it been a non-christian religious symbol in question.

 

[COerriccaRN]

It is not a christian religious symbol. The article claims that it is put in place as a memorial for our fallen vets. A cross is the universal symbol for death and sacrifice. So I see no reason to tear it down or even THINK about tearing it down. The ACLU is completely RIDICULOUS and a bunch of un-american morons.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

It is not a christian religious symbol. .

Sorry but IMHO I don't buy that. But does that mean it should be taken down? I don't believe so...others might. Like i said, i think it's a memorial...not propaganda.

 

[tsst]

A veterans memorial erected by veterans for veterans. Makes me often wonder if some people deserve the freedom payed for with the lives being honored by the very memorial they wish destroyed. Oregon, really? How offended can someone be that lives 1000+ miles away. [sarcasm]Mr Frank Buono please enjoy the freedom those veterans died for so you would have the right to disgrace them today.[/sarcasm] :nope:

 

[Emily1188]

It is not a christian religious symbol. The article claims that it is put in place as a memorial for our fallen vets. A cross is the universal symbol for death and sacrifice.

That is 100% untrue. A cross is a geometric shape, and in no way a universal representation of death and sacrifice unless you have been raised in or practice the religion which views it as such (Christianity).

Me thinks you need to take a break from journalism to take a sociology/anthropology class if you think everyone views a cross the same way you do!

 

[Michael823]

Religious symbol or not, there becomes a point where we need to use common sense, overlook the political BS, and respect our fallen soldiers in a way that reflects their courage. This is disrespectful to the dead, and I am appalled that a memorial would be taken down on this basis.
I don't want religion forced upon me, but that is a definition that I can look at unbiasedly. I agree with Zoologygirl about the exact symbol that is in question, but I think that our over sensitivity yet lack of compassion is frightening. If we can't display our memorials for fallen soldiers in a way that they would have liked, then how do we honor them?

 

[desertanimal]

The ACLU is completely RIDICULOUS and a bunch of un-american morons.

And, whether you agree with them or don't, the fact that the ACLU is challenging and can challenge that cross is what makes them Americans living in this, the US of A. Diversity and freedom from religious hegemony and persecution by that hegemony is what America is supposed to be about. Love it or leave it . . .

 

[desertanimal]

If we can't display our memorials for fallen soldiers in a way that they would have liked, then how do we honor them?

That's what the fallen Wiccan soldiers would have said, who weren't allowed to have the pentacle placed on their own headstones in Arlington National Cemetery until just a couple of years ago, even though, of course, the Christian cross was allowed on headstones since the cemetery's inception.

 

[The_Thunderer]

I'm kinda with you on this, Emily... but not so extreme. I think it should be left alone. But they've had crosses taken down long before this. They took one down in Hawaii (in Kolekole Pass - where the Japanese planes came through to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941) and they've done it in other locations as well.

Imagine if they had "sway" in France. The cemetary where all the soldiers who perished on D-Day each have a cross erected in memorial to their sacrifice. These would be taken down too. I can only imagine that this is some how, some way coming soon.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I'm not a Christian in any way, shape, or form. But this still disturbs me. It's a memorial. Leave it alone.

 

[danielle]

I say leave the memorial alone, but at the same time were all these soldiers christians? If they were jewish, muslim, or some other religion a memorial bearing a cross could be offensive. If this memorial is on now private property that could also be offensive. Do you have a the full story?

 

[Shiari]

while I say the memorial should be left alone (or added to), however as a pagan I can say with authority that the unequal-armed is absolutely a christian symbol.

 

[COerriccaRN]

This is a quote about the memorial taken from a all-SCHRISTIAN website...

“World War I memorials all over the world are crosses,” Shackelford noted. “That was the universal symbol that was used to reflect sacrifice.”

“There is no evidence of religious motivation. It was a pro-veterans motivation.”

I mean, come on! It's a cross... seriously. Who cares? Just because you look at at cross doesn't mean you have to get offended. I am 100% Christian, but when I pass a semi-local buddhist restaurant with a buddha statue in the parking lot, I don't care one bit. It doesn't offend me in any way... I don't care if it stays there or goes down.

People these days act like if they see a cross they are being "forced" to be a Christian! Just because I look at Buddhist statues ect ect doesn't mean anything. CLOSE YOUR EYES! DON'T LOOK! Seriously? People these days are ridiculous. They had a national muslim day of prayer in NYC the other day. I watched it on the news. Did I become Muslim? No. Did I feel they where forcing their beliefs on me? No, not at all.

f they were jewish, muslim, or some other religion a memorial bearing a cross could be offensive. If this memorial is on now private property that could also be offensive. Do you have a the full story?

As in my above argument, who cares if someone is Jewish/Muslim or another religion? I see their religious things on a daily basis, but it is so easy to just IGNORE. If you don't like crosses or find them offensive... Ignore them. Its that simple. A kid at my school carries around a Koran everywhere he goes. Do I find this offensive? Nope. I carry around a bible? Do others find this offensive? Yes, I have been told I shouldn't have it. Do I see a Muslim symbol of religion every once in a while? Yes, of course. Do I find this offense? Not in the least, I ignore it completely. Do people find the cross offensive? Apparently so.

What I'm trying to say is its OKAY for OTHER religions to bear their marks in public, as long as you are "christian." I know I will get flamed for this, but I will also say that in ALOT of cases this is not entirely true. Only this case of the Mojave Cross.

And yes, I do have the whole story. The cross is on Government property (national park.)

 

[COerriccaRN]

while I say the memorial should be left alone (or added to), however as a pagan I can say with authority that the unequal-armed is absolutely a christian symbol.

Of course it is a Christian symbol, but not in this case. It was not put up to make others think about becoming a christian. It was put up to honor vets. That was its INTENTION, now ACLU is making it something it is not at all.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

Of course it is a Christian symbol, but not in this case. It was not put up to make others think about becoming a christian. It was put up to honor vets. That was its INTENTION, now ACLU is making it something it is not at all.

But it was used because it is a Christian symbol. People don't think "I'm going to put up this random uneven + shape to honor vets". If they picked random shapes to honor people, why not a parallelogram? There is no doubt in my mind that the people who erected it equated the cross with Christianity...and no matter how much you or the article try you will not convince me otherwise.

That said, I don't see why it's so bad to equate the cross with Christianity :shrugs:

What I do believe is that the article is trying to use that as an excuse as to why it should not be taken down....they are claiming it is not "religious". I find that bogus.

However, the people against the cross are arguing that it is "propaganda"...I find that bogus as well.

It's a memorial, to honor the fallen, made by those of the Christian faith. All the power to them. And if someone wants to make a pentacle memorial, all the power to them as well.

Though like I said, I also belive that if it was a pentacle, or other symbol used in a non-christian faith...many people in the "leave it" camp would turn around and say "take it down!" (I'm talking about the general public at large).

And if it was a pentagram...and people tried to say "this is religious propaganda blah blah", couldn't one just as easily say "not in this case. It was not put up to make others think about becoming a pagan. It was put up to honor vets"

 

[Allen]

ha zoo girl i disagree.

like emily said, we have this buddha place in a town we go to sometimes and no one wants to take it down. we dont even think about it being there. if we put up a cross though...bring in the aclu law people quick. with guns. and papers to sign. and big words to confuse all us country people who don't understand why we gotta take down a innocent old cross anyway.

i think its kinda stupid. im not really a religion. i just beleive in the bible and it just says to do unto others as they do to you. i aint gonna say nothin about anyone elses stuff they put up and they ought not say anything bout mine.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

ha zoo girl i disagree.

like emily said, we have this buddha place in a town we go to sometimes and no one wants to take it down. we dont even think about it being there. if we put up a cross though...bring in the aclu law people quick. with guns. and papers to sign. and big words to confuse all us country people who don't understand why we gotta take down a innocent old cross anyway.

i think its kinda stupid. im not really a religion. i just beleive in the bible and it just says to do unto others as they do to you. i aint gonna say nothin about anyone elses stuff they put up and they ought not say anything bout mine.

I think you missed my point...I don't agree with the ACLU in this case. I think the cross should be able to stay.

However, I think it is obvious that it is a religious symbol.

i aint gonna say nothin about anyone elses stuff they put up and they ought not say anything bout mine

I couldn't agree more...